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67C tips for an Ovation Pilot


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I've stumbled upon an interesting opportunity. My last 150 hours have been renting a 2000 Ovation locally, this is how I've been introduced to the the Mooney brand, and it's been great! Through local flying opportunities, particularly the local Angel Flight group, I've built a friendship with an individual who has a 67 M20C and it's in tremendous mechanical shape. The individual spends most of his flying time in his turboprop and has asked me to fly the C whenever I can to keep it running well. He's named me on his insurance and all he asks is that I pay for fuel. No brainer for me. So I've studied through the threads of Mooney forums on this site on operating and handling of the C, and like always, the info has been great. My question is how can go about making smart IFR flights effectively with my current set up. The panel sports a good working Stec 60-2 coupled to an old Apollo gx60. I downloaded the gx60 sim which has helped familiarize me with the system (I'm used to the 530/430waas system). Would it be better for me to grab a stratus and monitor weather/traffic on my ipad? The Ovation has adsb integrated on the 530, so I don't currently vary an iOS onboard. Does that work effectively? I realize I'd legally have to file as /U instead of /G because the apollo's card is out of date and I know they don't support that old technology now. Thoughts? Ready set go.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Tx_Aggie said:

The panel sports a good working Stec 60-2 coupled to an old Apollo gx60. I downloaded the gx60 sim which has helped familiarize me with the system (I'm used to the 530/430waas system). Would it be better for me to grab a stratus and monitor weather/traffic on my ipad? The Ovation has adsb integrated on the 530, so I don't currently vary an iOS onboard. Does that work effectively? I realize I'd legally have to file as /U instead of /G because the apollo's card is out of date and I know they don't support that old technology now.

Current databases are available for the GX60 from Jeppesen:

http://jeppdirect.jeppesen.com/legal/charts/ads-overview.jsp?ostc=ostc00186wh&omnostcloc=lr2

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Many people like flying with their tablet; some won't / can't fly without it.

Biggest differences I'd think would be:

  • On takeoff, C ground roll will be shorter 
  • Climb rate will be less than the O 
  • Much less room behind the front seats

Is it manual gear and hydraulic flaps? Practice the "Mooney bob," and the the gear up as soon as you've verified positive rate.

Other than that, and dealing with the Apollo, go have fun! And as always, fly safe!

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One, follow Hank's writing... Lots of IFR M20C experience, strong mechanical background...:)

Two, Use extreme caution....

If you stop renting an O and start flying a borrowed(?) C, expect two things that may crop up quickly...

  • UL may be affected by the weight of your wallet increasing over time...
  • Back strain may become noticeable because of the uneven seating situation generated by that same wallet increasing in volume...

Os and Cs are incredibly similar to each other...

My O is just a bigger version than what my C was, just...

  • heavier
  • more powerful
  • more updated (there are some Cs ( @Urs_Wildermuth)    around here that are better equipped than my O.

Having everything working on board is important in IMC...

Having more data is better than less data...

Head down in the cockpit isn't as good as head up looking out the window... looking for traffic. iPads and ADSB receivers are pretty low cost.  Get one and use it...

I'm one of the guys that Hank is pointing at.  I bring my iPad and iPhone with me all the time... (in the car, at the gym, on the kitchen table, and flying too...)

So many things can be loaded on an iPad.  A full library of stuff... from POHs to check lists to weather services.

If the GPS database can't be updated.. it still works really well at flying VOR to VOR....

There are a few threads about CBs and how they best handle their database update requirements...

Buying, borrowing, or using, a known plane from a known individual Sounds really exciting!

Best regards,

-a-

 

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Great situation!  You don't even have to buy a portion of the plane to enjoy $25 an hour vs $150. No advice except to enjoy the almost free flying. 

Not sure if the gx60 is legal for ifr without an indicator. Not sure if one is installed or not but keep that in mind if you are looking at paying for an update. 

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Many people like flying with their tablet; some won't / can't fly without it.
Biggest differences I'd think would be:
  • On takeoff, C ground roll will be shorter 
  • Climb rate will be less than the O 
  • Much less room behind the front seats
Is it manual gear and hydraulic flaps? Practice the "Mooney bob," and the the gear up as soon as you've verified positive rate.
Other than that, and dealing with the Apollo, go have fun! And as always, fly safe!



What's the Mooney Bob?! It does have the Johnson bar. I flew it with the owner the other day and it is working well, took. Me about three touch and goes to get the sequence on that as well as the hydraulic flaps but I think I'll actually enjoy them. Useful load is 937 vs 1006 in the O. Price difference net to me will be about $40/hr on average vs $275. Needless to say I think I can make the C work. ;) No 201 speed mods, and the airspeed indicator goes yellow at 130 kts. I'll have to work it out to see what the actual TAS is at altitude. I'm used to taking the Ovation up to 11-12k when I fly. Local elevation is about 3k, so it takes at least 10k to get above the heat/turbulence. The owner did tell me if I want to be that high, better keep my flying to the mornings in the spring/summer. We live in western Texas. Yeah I don't mind flying VORs, in fact I typically still fly victor airways in case the 530 fails, the backup is still on track. Plus for me when I head west, mountains are on the north side and the border is on the south making the victor airways a good option!


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I can't help you with "the bob," I have electric gear and have only seen it from outside and read descriptions of it here. Something about a tiny bit of nose down / less nose up to help swing the gear up.

Yesterday with temps in the mid to high 90s, I climbed from 326 to 7500 msl and had power set less than 15 minutes from turning the key (obviously, I'm at a non-towered field). With 22" / 2400, 3 blade Hartzell and 201 windshield, I was indicating right around 140 mph (yellow starts at 175 mph); you'll find everything on these planes is in MPH, while the O is in knots. Since it was 68°F vs. standard temp of 32°F, this is decent speed, and since I was practicing maneuvers since my plane has been down several months, I really wasn't worried about what it was, just wanted some "normal cruise" speed to work with. I generally see ~145 mph at 8000-10,000 msl running WOT- and 2500.

Oh yeah--leaning your carburetor is a little different, too, as few will run LOP. I generally back off the throttle enough to make the MP needle begin to move, which shuts off the WOT enrichment circuit. 

Have fun learning your new Ride! And welcome to the Vintage world!

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I can't help you with "the bob," I have electric gear and have only seen it from outside and read descriptions of it here. Something about a tiny bit of nose down / less nose up to help swing the gear up.
Yesterday with temps in the mid to high 90s, I climbed from 326 to 7500 msl and had power set less than 15 minutes from turning the key (obviously, I'm at a non-towered field). With 22" / 2400, 3 blade Hartzell and 201 windshield, I was indicating right around 140 mph (yellow starts at 175 mph); you'll find everything on these planes is in MPH, while the O is in knots. Since it was 68°F vs. standard temp of 32°F, this is decent speed, and since I was practicing maneuvers since my plane has been down several months, I really wasn't worried about what it was, just wanted some "normal cruise" speed to work with. I generally see ~145 mph at 8000-10,000 msl running WOT- and 2500.
Oh yeah--leaning your carburetor is a little different, too, as few will run LOP. I generally back off the throttle enough to make the MP needle begin to move, which shuts off the WOT enrichment circuit. 
Have fun learning your new Ride! And welcome to the Vintage world!


I'm familiar with almost all the Lingo but what does WOT stand for?

Thanks


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Great situation!  You don't even have to buy a portion of the plane to enjoy $25 an hour vs $150. No advice except to enjoy the almost free flying. 
Not sure if the gx60 is legal for ifr without an indicator. Not sure if one is installed or not but keep that in mind if you are looking at paying for an update. 

What indicator are you talking about?


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1 minute ago, Tx_Aggie said:


I'm familiar with almost all the Lingo but what does WOT stand for?
 

 

Wide Open Throttle. For me, it's the quadrant the lever all the way forward. After levelling off and accelerating, I pull it back until I see the MP needle start to move, then set RPM and begin to lean.

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The manual gear is fun to get to know...

1) There is a speed that is best for putting them up... slow, but not too slow... airspeed vs. gear doors, and stall speed...

2) There is a speed that is best for putting them down... fast, but not too fast... airspeed vs. gear doors, and gear handle ripping through the cabin...

3) If you have been to the gym this week already, you probably can skip the optimum gear moving speeds.  It takes strength, but not a lot of strength...

4) if your arms haven't visited the gym, the optimum gear speeds are easy to follow... useful runway has gone away, gear goes up...

5) going slowly aids when putting the gear away. The plane likes to accelerate so doing it early is better than waiting...

6) If you wait too long and you are going too fast....  simply raise the nose, the plane slows down and climbs while the gear gets easier to move... mostly what the Mooney bob is about.  Doing the bob quickly, involves some momentum of the gear and weightlessness of the plane... use caution near the ground.

7) WOT...wide open throttle.  The setting many Mooney drivers use from T/O to approaching the traffic pattern... Some adjustment in flying, for the yellow arc of the ASI, may be needed.

8) Under MGTOW the 180hp engine isn't terribly taxed.  We would climb to 12,500' on a regular basis.  Our bumps in NJ run out usually before 5,000'

9) Stuck under cloud cover, in summer, in the bumps, at lower altitudes would be uncomfortable...  get an icebox cooler AC device...

How is that?

Best regards,

-a-

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21 minutes ago, Tx_Aggie said:


What indicator are you talking about?


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To be legal IFR the GX GPS series needs to be connected to an external CDI or an HSI.  The data base updates are available, there is a quirk about data bases not needing to be current as long as the approach fixes have not changed.

Clarence

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4 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Stuck under cloud cover, in summer, in the bumps, at lower altitudes would be uncomfortable...  get an icebox cooler AC device...

 

And that is why I climbed to 7500 for practice yesterday! Less for the bumps than for the heat. Bottoms were about 3500 or so, little popcorn cumulus, and 7500 put me above almost all of the tops. Did I mention it was a balmy 68° there?  :P

They were fairly scattered, I climbed straight out on runway heading all the way up, and had a pretty good view of the Lake the whole time, then descended over the (crowded) Lake, flew past home and went to the airport. 

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I'm in Austin and would be happy to provide some in person orientation to all things M20C if you come this far East. I used to fly my C at 12,500 and 13,500 all the time. It takes awhile to get there, but cruises nicely and cheaply at those altitudes. Crossing certain mountains into Colorado, it's been as high as 16,500.

Do you have an engine monitor in that C? They are useful. Get an iPad and Stratus or Stratux. That C with an Stec60 is a solid little IFR machine.

Regarding the manual gear... I wish I had the manual gear in my 252. Either learn to swing the Jbar without moving the airplane for raising the gear at low speed right after takeoff.  Or wait for more altitude (equals more speed) and learn to bob the airplane with the yoke to all for easier movement of the Jbar at the slightly higher speed. I preferred the former. Lift off, positive rate, gear up.  Never mind the additional mile of useable runway, get the gear stowed ASAP. 

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To be legal IFR the GX GPS series needs to be connected to an external CDI or an HSI.  The data base updates are available, there is a quirk about data bases not needing to be current as long as the approach fixes have not changed.
Clarence


Ah yes it does have an extra albeit small dedicated single axis cdi off to the left side.

If I'm not mistaken, the stec 60-2 will fly the glideslope and in this case that only corresponds to an ILS. I believe the gx far preceded the precision waas gps approach. Good to know I can update the databases. I might have to see what I can do though to get at least a working 430w as a replacement. That would be fantastic.


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You can still file /G as long as you have an enroute approved IFR GPS without current databases as long as you have current paper or electronic charts. You just cannot shoot a GPS approach without a current database.

from the Garmin 400/430W manual:

Yes, you may file your flight plan as /G if your 400W-series unit is an authorized IFR installation. The 400W series is a TSO C146a Gamma-3 (Class 3) authorized GPS navigator. If you are flying en route, you may file /G with an expired database only after you have verified all route waypoints. Approaches may not be flown with an expired database. See your approved Airplane Flight Manual Supplement for more information.

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I'm in Austin and would be happy to provide some in person orientation to all things M20C if you come this far East. I used to fly my C at 12,500 and 13,500 all the time. It takes awhile to get there, but cruises nicely and cheaply at those altitudes. Crossing certain mountains into Colorado, it's been as high as 16,500.
Do you have an engine monitor in that C? They are useful. Get an iPad and Stratus or Stratux. That C with an Stec60 is a solid little IFR machine.
Regarding the manual gear... I wish I had the manual gear in my 252. Either learn to swing the Jbar without moving the airplane for raising the gear at low speed right after takeoff.  Or wait for more altitude (equals more speed) and learn to bob the airplane with the yoke to all for easier movement of the Jbar at the slightly higher speed. I preferred the former. Lift off, positive rate, gear up.  Never mind the additional mile of useable runway, get the gear stowed ASAP. 


Did you move from the C to the 252? I've read a lot about those modified 231s and 252s looks to me like the best of both worlds - the ability to sip on the fuel as well as get great TAS at higher altitudes.

We go to Austin several times a year. I'll definitely keep you in mind next time we're there and the wife goes shopping! Which airport are you based out of, austin executive or bergstrom?


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9 hours ago, Tx_Aggie said:

Did you move from the C to the 252? I've read a lot about those modified 231s and 252s looks to me like the best of both worlds - the ability to sip on the fuel as well as get great TAS at higher altitudes.

We go to Austin several times a year. I'll definitely keep you in mind next time we're there and the wife goes shopping! Which airport are you based out of, austin executive or bergstrom?

 

Yes, once I worked out that I could actually go A to B in the 252 as economically as the C, it was time to move up. We also did a trip around the western US in the C and crossing the big rocks coupled with some very high DA airports got us thinking turbo as well.

I actually hangar at San Marcos, but live in South Austin very close to Bergstrom. Let me know when you're in town and we'll go fly.

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I haven't had my C in the teens, but I was going 500 feet/minute up at 10,000 feet on her maiden voyage.  I think a C in good trim will do the low teens with ease.  Do work the Johnson-bar, it does take a bit of getting used to.  I do my initial climb out at 80 so I can swing the damn thing, I am the proverbial 20 lb wearing.  And yeah, you'll enjoy the savings.  I think he M20C is one of the biggest bangs for your buck in all of certificated aviation.

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 my 67'c on final it seems really like 80 mph on final.

but I have yet to master  consistently keeping a cool CHT on climb out doesn't happen every time  but it sure seems like it is erratic as barometric  pressure in the a hurricane.

now mater what procedure  I try.     Sometimes OAT will have effect on high CHT's   but I have  had High CHT's happen in winter too.  

James

 

 

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One, follow Hank's writing... Lots of IFR M20C experience, strong mechanical background...
Two, Use extreme caution....
If you stop renting an O and start flying a borrowed(?) C, expect two things that may crop up quickly...
  • UL may be affected by the weight of your wallet increasing over time...
  • Back strain may become noticeable because of the uneven seating situation generated by that same wallet increasing in volume...
Os and Cs are incredibly similar to each other...
My O is just a bigger version than what my C was, just...
  • heavier
  • more powerful
  • more updated (there are some Cs ( [mention=7530]Urs_Wildermuth[/mention])    around here that are better equipped than my O.
Having everything working on board is important in IMC...
Having more data is better than less data...
Head down in the cockpit isn't as good as head up looking out the window... looking for traffic. iPads and ADSB receivers are pretty low cost.  Get one and use it...
I'm one of the guys that Hank is pointing at.  I bring my iPad and iPhone with me all the time... (in the car, at the gym, on the kitchen table, and flying too...)
So many things can be loaded on an iPad.  A full library of stuff... from POHs to check lists to weather services.
If the GPS database can't be updated.. it still works really well at flying VOR to VOR....
There are a few threads about CBs and how they best handle their database update requirements...
Buying, borrowing, or using, a known plane from a known individual Sounds really exciting!
Best regards,
-a-
 

What do you mean by CBs?


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8 hours ago, Tx_Aggie said:


What do you mean by CBs?


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CBs used to be radios you kept in the car. Now it's an adjective, Cheap B@st@rd. There's even a CB Club; look for my Oil Change PowerPoint in the Downloads section and see my CB method to not make a mess when removing the oil filter  (Some people cram a roll of paper towels down under it to soak up spilled oil . . . ).

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A CB is a pilot that prefers to spend less, than to spend more... 
Best regards,
-a-

Hahaha I'm known to be a CB at certain times! With airplanes though, I'd rather have the right and necessary Things on board.


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