chrisk Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 I'm wondering how often commercial air carriers have runway incursions? What prompts the question is an experience yesterday. Flying United, we landed at YYZ (Toronto) on a left runway. The plane taxied off to the right. Then the next thing I know, the plane is locking up the breaks. Looking out the window, the nose is probably just a foot past the hold short line for the right runway. And lined up on the right runway is a 4 engine jet of some sort (maybe 747) getting ready to take off. Less than a minute later, it takes off. --The most amusing part however is when the plane pulled into the gate. Not one person stood up before the seat belt light went off. I felt like I dodged a bullet. So, how often do runway incursions happen with professional crews at major airports? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 It's incredibly rare. And you saw the result of two well-trained professionals working together to prevent an incursion- one noticed the impending mistake and together they prevented the tragedy. But when you are talking about doing 400 takeoffs and landings a year over a career that extends well over 20,000 hours, the window of exposure is pretty large. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisk Posted July 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 I was guessing the second in command was the one who hit the breaks. I was half tempted to chat with the pilots, and buy them a beer if they were done for the day, but I didn't want to interrupt anything and I had places to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 Probably not, but it's possible. Normally after landing, the First Officer/SIC is usually pretty busy cleaning up the airplane and running the after landing checklist. In your situation, my gut feeling is he glanced up, noticed the captain might not have noticed the runway hold short lines, and said, "HOLD SHORT, HOLD SHORT, HOLD SHORT!" prompting the slamming on the brakes. And the Captain probably bought him a beer over dinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 What if it were an Asian crew? Would there be loud beating noises coming from the cockp... I mean flight deck? Or would the first officer bite his tongue and wait for tower to do the poopooing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 Very rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 Based on what a friend and 767 F/O tells me, the tolerance levels are very tight. He mentioned to me last year an incident where the wingtip of his plane crossed ever so slightly over the hold line and that freaked him out enough to file a report with NASA as soon as he was off duty. Since he never mentioned it again, I assume no report was filed by the tower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Peace Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, flyboy0681 said: Based on what a friend and 767 F/O tells me, the tolerance levels are very tight. He mentioned to me last year an incident where the wingtip of his plane crossed ever so slightly over the hold line and that freaked him out enough to file a report with NASA as soon as he was off duty. Since he never mentioned it again, I assume no report was filed by the tower. it is impossible to see a wing tip or any part of your wing in the 767......at least the 200 and 300 Edited July 13, 2017 by Jim Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 Just now, Jim Peace said: it is impossible to see a wing tip or any part of your wing in the 767...... I can see them every time I ride in one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 Well, when you're paycheck depends on not having your license suspended, you fill out NASA forms at the drop of a hat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 21 hours ago, 201er said: What if it were an Asian crew? Would there be loud beating noises coming from the cockp... I mean flight deck? Or would the first officer bite his tongue and wait for tower to do the poopooing? Being married to an Asian and having an entire Asian family I take offence to your comment. Stupidity and accidents cover all races, including yours. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 This has been a hot topic with the FAA for years, and both pro's and bugsmashers are the cause of their ire. The pro ops include proper use of lighting to help eliminate a disaster when a RI occurs, and as bugsmashers, we could take a page from their playbook here. I think Ill write a short piece on this and put it in the Mooney flyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garryowen Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 From my seat, foreflight does a great job of helping out with situational awareness around runways. As soon as I point at a runway foreflight starts chirping, "approaching Runway 28" or whichever one I am heading towards. Mine is set up for it to display taxi diagrams as soon as I land and is the first thing that comes up when I start to move for departure. It doesn't take away from the required preflight planning but is a great piece of kit to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 The commercial crews who fly in the US are amazing. If we GA pilots were half as good we could all be proud. But we never will be. We don't fly every day, nor do we have training paid for by someone else. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob - S50 Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 2 hours ago, M20Doc said: Being married to an Asian and having an entire Asian family I take offence to your comment. Stupidity and accidents cover all races, including yours. Clarence I don't think he meant any offense. In the past, this was a well documented problem with airlines based in other parts of the world, including Asia. Because of the culture, the Captain was just short of a god. He could make no mistakes. There were several cases of accidents/incidents where the FO saw something but said nothing. They might hint, but they did nothing more than that. Recently those airlines have seen the benefit of cockpit resource management and have pushed to make sure that no longer happens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garryowen Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 1 hour ago, steingar said: The commercial crews who fly in the US are amazing. If we GA pilots were half as good we could all be proud. But we never will be. We don't fly every day, nor do we have training paid for by someone else. ...and 99% of the time, we are single pilot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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