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Garmin product announcement July 18


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For me it is not legal to install the G5 as a primary unit because I have a flight director and FIKI. From what it looks like I might be wise to buy an Aspen system as (Trek mentioned on another site they are currently working with Aspen to integrate w/ Garmin s AP) it might be more likely to work with the 500 AP vs the G500 which will probably need the 600 AP??
Or will Garmin demand all Eagles, Ovations, Bravos, etc use the more expensive unit?

My understanding is the GFC500 interfaces with the G5 only. If you need to interface with the G500 or Aspen PFD you have to go with the GFC600. So those of us who have Aspens in our panels may only have the GFC600 as an option. At least that's how I understand it but I could be wrong.


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For those that can't tell... I love trying to interpret corporate strategy from these moves... sorry for spamming the thread ... okay not sorry ;)

9 minutes ago, kevinw said:


My understanding is the GFC500 interfaces with the G5 only. If you need to interface with the G500 or Aspen PFD you have to go with the GFC600. So those of us who have Aspens in our panels may only have the GFC600 as an option. At least that's how I understand it but I could be wrong.


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I suspect Garmin is starting to think about the $ value of a customer rather than the value of an individual sale. The GFC 500 is a close infrastructure product that gets the customer into the Garmin world. The G5 doesn't work with Avidyne, so if you want the GFC500 you also buy a G5 (likely a dual G5) with all the goodies and you're locked into the Garmin network for your upgrades to radios (~$5k) and GPS navigators $$$.  The GFC600 integrates with other systems but you pay more for it.

Garmin generates $X in gross margin minimum either way, which exceeds the customer acquisition cost and generates the target profit level.

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That brings up a good point. Trek said in another thread that the G5 stc was only good for connecting with a Garmin gps/nav/com or nav/com.  I'm sure it will work fine with the ifd440/540 but when you start connecting the AP etc I'm curious about the legal aspects of integrating with Avidyne. 

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3 minutes ago, Godfather said:

That brings up a good point. Trek said in another thread that the G5 stc was only good for connecting with a Garmin gps/nav/com or nav/com.  I'm sure it will work fine with the ifd440/540 but when you start connecting the AP etc I'm curious about the legal aspects of integrating with Avidyne. 

Bingo- this autopilot upgrade prepositions Garmin for the next big round of upgrades.

The G3X and the Dynon Skyview systems, or whatever comes next from each company, are both well position for a big round of upgrades to glass cockpits at reasonable pricing.  Both companies have already started down this path (see the G5 and the D10).

If Garmin can sell an autopilot controller and servos today that pre-position Garmin as the vendor for the next upgrade, which it will as it saves the aircraft owner the cost of servos and autopilot, it makes sense.

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The definition according to Merriam Garmin: A high performance airplane shall be defined as any airplane whose owner has the financial capacity to beg, borrow or steal $35000 for the autopilot installed. In the event that every financial avenue is exhausted, in twelve months time their airplane shall fall into the GFC 500 category, provided of course, that all of their estate is bequeathed to Garmin upon their death.

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1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

The definition according to Merriam Garmin: A high performance airplane shall be defined as any airplane whose owner has the financial capacity to beg, borrow or steal $35000 for the autopilot installed. In the event that every financial avenue is exhausted, in twelve months time their airplane shall fall into the GFC 500 category, provided of course, that all of their estate is bequeathed to Garmin upon their death.

Garmin should just do like the colleges do - I have two kids in college right now - Cornell - and the financial aid system is hilarious.  They ask the parents to write every detail of their financial situation and to provide proof in terms of their tax returns, and then they use some kind of intricate computation based on the concept that they want to squeeze you a certain amount of severity but still allow you to be reasonably comfortable, and then based on that, they come up with a number of how much they can charge you and then the rest they say is financial aid.  In other words, they make up a number that has nothing to do with the sticker price and they charge that.

So- why not have Garmin ask us to provide our tax returns, and then they can tell you which model they will allow us to buy?

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So If the GFC600 is to be what is offered - am I wrong or does this automatically become at least a 45k upgrade, since its $20k for the gfc600+ you need to get the G500 for 25k installed.

Vs the GFC500 for 7K plus a pair of G5's for 5k plus install, let's call it 15k?

I'll take the second please.

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Hey people at Oshkosh, please storm the Garmin tent and plead cheapskate that we Mooney owners want the GFC500 no matter what their definition of "high performance" (based on income), and that runs at least through k owners, but likely many/most of us.

Meanwhile, I got this email from trutrek in my mailbox this morning.  Will you please also storm the trutrek tent?  Seems like they too have all the features I want, incl envelope protection and straight and level button?  For 4k .... plus 1k for stc.  WOW.  QUestion - what could be used to drive it?  G5?  If not, Or what else?  I might consider GFC500 at a moderate greater cost over the trutrek for sake of a larger company?  But no way would I get the GFC600 for 45k all in vs a 5k autopilot.

Anyway, please storm their tent and express interest so they will make an STC for M20 too - plus see you can go to their website to express interest.

TruTrak Autopilot STC Complete for C172 and C177
 
Springdale, AR July 20, 2017 - TruTrak Flight Systems is pleased to announce that together with EAA, they have completed the STC of the Vizion autopilot system.  The STC was awarded on July 19, 2017.  This is the first autopilot manufactured by TruTrak to be approved for certified aircraft.
 
TruTrak will begin delivering complete autopilot systems during EAA AirVenture, which begins Monday, July 24, 2017.  The autopilot system cost is $4000, the install kit is $1000, and the STC from EAA is priced at $100.  During AirVenture, TruTrak will be displaying their Cessna 172 aircraft at their outdoor booth 174.  The Vizion autopilot will be installed in the aircraft so that patrons may see and learn about the system.  TruTrak will also have staffing at indoor booth 3030.  EAA’s STC demonstrator 172, Vizion autopilot and Dynon D10A will be on display at the EAA Four Corners.  EAA will begin fulfilling orders for the STC shortly after AirVenture.  Visit www.eaa.org/accessiblesafety for more information on purchasing your STC.
 
The Vizion autopilot is a revolutionary autopilot for the certified aircraft market.  This two-axis autopilot offers a huge list of features and safety enhancements.  The autopilot is capable of following simple and more complex flight plans from nearly any aviation handheld or panel mount GPS in the market today.  Vizion autopilot also offers a track selector, altitude hold, vertical speed select, and altitude select / pre-select.
 
Description: Macintosh HD:Users:andrewbarker:Desktop:Final C172 FAA docs:Pics for ICA:IMG_5563.JPG
 
The list of safety features is nearly as long as the standard autopilot features.  The Vizion autopilot will neither let the pilot accidentally stall or overspeed the aircraft with the use of minimum and maximum airspeed settings.  Also included is the Emergency Level feature, which allows the pilot to press one button and the autopilot will engage and bring the aircraft to wings level and zero vertical speed.  This mode is unique in that it initially commands wings level, but then switches to track select mode to allow the pilot to more easily select a new desired direction.
DB54588E-E8B0-419F-ABFA-E9FADB74659A.png
 
Included for the first time in any TruTrak autopilot is a new safety feature called AEP.  This mode is a bank angle protection mode that the pilot can easily arm / disarm.  AEP is used when the autopilot is powered up, but not engaged, in other words when the aircraft is being hand-flown.  When armed, AEP monitors the aircraft bank angle and will engage the roll servo with a modulated signal that allows the servo to put a lighter than normal force into the control system.  This is not like the autopilot actually engaging, as the pilot may still very easily override the servo.  The system simply aids the pilot in lowering the bank angle of the aircraft.  This feature was specifically designed with LOC (loss of control) accidents in mind.
 
“We have been working on this project behind the scenes for many years and it’s great to finally finish this monumental project.  Having the STC issued and beginning deliveries of this system right around EAA AirVenture is just perfect.” said CEO Andrew Barker “EAA has been a wonderful partner in this process, and I couldn’t imagine a better place to announce the completion of this first STC.  We are committed to continuing to work with EAA on adding more aircraft types.  We have already begun working on the next installation designs, and look forward to offering those in the coming months.”
 
TruTrak is launching an updated website that will have more information on the certified product line.  This new website will also offer a web store for online purchasing of TruTrak autopilots for certified aircraft as well as popular experimental aircraft.  Visit TruTrak online at www.trutrakap.com
 
Founded in 1999, TruTrak is a leader and innovator in the experimental and light sport aircraft autopilot market.  TruTrak has designed and manufactured many cutting edge autopilots including the autopilots in the Virgin Atlantic Global Flyer and most recently Solar Impulse.
 
Andrew Barker
President / CEO
TruTrak Flight Systems

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And I'm thinking along another line.  I currently have the KFC200.

If the KI525 (HSI) quits first, I can replace it with the G5.  Probably cheaper (or at least not much more) than having BK repair the unit.

If the KI256 (ADI) quits first I'm thinking replace it with a G5 and replace the KFC200 with the Trio Pro Pilot which does not take input from an attitude indicator at all.  It won't matter what attitude indicator I have.  This assumes that Trio gets their unit certified this year and adds Mooney to the list.  Their current price for experimental is about $3500.  If you add 50% for certified, that's still only $4750.  And if I can do all that, I can remove my 28 lb KFC200, replace it with about 4 or 5 lbs of new stuff, and get rid of my vacuum pump.  Net savings of about 25 lbs when all is said and done.  Solid state, GPSS, GPSV, altitude capture and 4 more gallons of fuel.  Hard to beat.

If the turn coordinator quits, I'm thinking replace it with the Sandia Quattro.

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So if you figure an average TBO of 10 years for the 256 and 20 years for the 525 how many pilots are still going to be flying their current planes at that point?  My guess is you will be able to buy nice used 256/525 units for $400/$800 when pilots start to upgrade the units...you could fly a long time for little coin. Can you even call yourself a CB looking at the upgrade cost?

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5 minutes ago, Godfather said:

So if you figure an average TBO of 10 years for the 256 and 20 years for the 525 how many pilots are still going to be flying their current planes at that point?  My guess is you will be able to buy nice used 256/525 units for $400/$800 when pilots start to upgrade the units...you could fly a long time for little coin. Can you even call yourself a CB looking at the upgrade cost?

I think your assumptions are wrong regarding the lifespan of a 256.  TBO aside, I would say a 256 is good for 3 years maybe.  So say $3500 overhaul in 3 years.  They might go longer, but they also might go less and I have heard stories of much less.

There is a point to be made that as people convert over that there will be a flood in the market of used 256's and other parts. 

Same argument can be made for the entire M20 airframes, that as GA shrinks, there will be a constant stream of donor parts to keep our well loved airplanes flying.

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2 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

I think your assumptions are wrong regarding the lifespan of a 256.  TBO aside, I would say a 256 is good for 3 years maybe.  So say $3500 overhaul in 3 years.  They might go longer, but they also might go less and I have heard stories of much less.

There is a point to be made that as people convert over that there will be a flood in the market of used 256's and other parts. 

Same argument can be made for the entire M20 airframes, that as GA shrinks, there will be a constant stream of donor parts to keep our well loved airplanes flying.

My sample size is one and I'm on the far right side of the bell curve but I also understand that others are reporting from experience on the left side.  One thing is for sure AP maintenance from BK will not be getting any cheaper in the future.  

 

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10 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Garmin should just do like the colleges do - I have two kids in college right now - Cornell - and the financial aid system is hilarious.  They ask the parents to write every detail of their financial situation and to provide proof in terms of their tax returns, and then they use some kind of intricate computation based on the concept that they want to squeeze you a certain amount of severity but still allow you to be reasonably comfortable, and then based on that, they come up with a number of how much they can charge you and then the rest they say is financial aid.  In other words, they make up a number that has nothing to do with the sticker price and they charge that.

So- why not have Garmin ask us to provide our tax returns, and then they can tell you which model they will allow us to buy?

Ah..the beauty of free market approach!

Meanwhile in Scandinavian countries, university is free and in Australia / NZ, you can get interest-free tuition loans (approximate 50K for a commerce degree) from the government that you don't have to pay back until you start earning $40K/year. But I digress. 

The current state of avionics industry for GA makes waiting all the more sensible. IMHO, the incompatibilities within its own product line are most likely market-driven software-crippling ploys to stratify the market and reap the highest profit. 

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36 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Ah..the beauty of free market approach!

Meanwhile in Scandinavian countries, university is free and in Australia / NZ, you can get interest-free tuition loans (approximate 50K for a commerce degree) from the government that you don't have to pay back until you start earning $40K/year. But I digress. 

Ironically, the most expensive but most wealthy and selective schools are amongst those with the biggest sticker price, but they can afford to give financial packages, so that essentially what you pay has nothing to do with the sticker price and every students pays a different price.

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28 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Ironically, the most expensive but most wealthy and selective schools are amongst those with the biggest sticker price, but they can afford to give financial packages, so that essentially what you pay has nothing to do with the sticker price and every students pays a different price.

That essentially sums up the free market approach. Everything have a price tag pending on supply and demand including health care. It's mind-boggling for many people living outside the US to comprehend how does one put a price tag on something as essential as health and education... Anyway not to mean to hijack the discussion. Apology. 

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9 minutes ago, Tommy said:

That essentially sums up the free market approach. Everything have a price tag pending on supply and demand including health care. It's mind-boggling for many people living outside the US to comprehend how does one put a price tag on something as essential as health and education... Anyway not to mean to hijack the discussion. Apology. 

I wasn't complaining.

it turns out that cornel was the cheapest school at the end of the day for several reason including a large endowment and that I have two sons there at the same time.  U mich my middle son got into would have been by far the most expensive amongst those he got into, being out of state and also therefore no financial offer at all - so full sticker price.

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We'll very likely get the 500... Garmin knows what this market wants. I suspect we'll see more 600 approvals in the near term simply because it meets TSO requirements. The 500 will need more time to go thru the STC chute for each aircraft family. Garmin certainly knows if most of us cannot get the 500, we'll be buying Trio and TruTrak soon enough.

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9 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

We'll very likely get the 500... Garmin knows what this market wants. I suspect we'll see more 600 approvals in the near term simply because it meets TSO requirements. The 500 will need more time to go thru the STC chute for each aircraft family. Garmin certainly knows if most of us cannot get the 500, we'll be buying Trio and TruTrak soon enough.

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They approve the G5/GFC500 and you'll see it here.

right next to the gear handle.

FullSizeRender.jpg

Edited by jetdriven
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