David Medders Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 This is a cautionary tale from one of my weekend flights. I was filing around weather between KOKC and KADS. I filed an ICAO flight plan through Leidos. My approach to weather routing is to file something based on current and forecast weather with plenty of outs, then negotiate changes as the flight proceeds. I was planning to negotiate a shortcut prior to reaching MQP. Filed route: KOKC HBR MQP GREGS.GREGS8 KADS Expected route: KOKC OLGUY2.GRUVN HBR MQP GREGS.JFRYE3 KADS Clearance: KOKC OLGUY2.GRUVN HBR then as-filed The addition of the departure makes sense. The change of arrival in the expected route makes sense. The question: What does the clearance controller think I filed? So, I asked for the full route clearance after HBR and told him why. The full route was not immediately available to him. When he returned, the clearance was my expected route, NOT my filed route. How did this change happen and what if I had not asked? In this case, it would have been a non-event because the arrival was covered in weather. I was on vectors to KADS before I reached MQP. It would have been obvious if I tried to fly the wrong arrival -- DFW controllers tend to verify arrivals anyway. However, the ramp is the place to clarify a clearance when the pieces are not adding up. Moral: If the route is not absolutely clear, ask for clarification. The flown route is attached. I was on vectors from HBR to KADS. Cheers, David 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 Good lesson. At work, I took an "as filed" clearance out of PDK headed to Providenciales. Imagine our surprise when departure gave us direct CEW....not event close to our filed route. Turns out, the company had earlier filed the aircraft to Destin. Gotcha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccray Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) I don't have any answers, but I'll be watching as an ADS based pilot Edited July 10, 2017 by smccray Damn autocorrect ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 David, Great post, replete with timely graphics! Thanks for sharing the details. Cleared as filed sounds sooo good some days. This one gives something to be aware of before departing into IMC... Thanks again, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolter Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 I had the same experience. One time I had change notifications on, and got a notification. That updated route was "as filed" to the controller. I think our filed flight plans are sometimes updated on our behalf, whether you are actually informed of the change or not. It then appears "as filed" when the controller looks it up and gives the final clearance. I don't like it as it relies on one-way communication. I do not normally check all texts and e-mails before a flight. Far too many. Without a receipt confirmation from us, they should not assume we know "as filed" has changed. -dan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskytango Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 I file through CSRA DUATS, and always select the option to have them email me confirmation, plus any changes from my filed route. This worked well in the past, but lately I have been given major changes to the route by Clearance Delivery, with no email to this effect from CSRA DUATS. The reroute could be a problem if it results in significant headwinds on a flight when I am trying to limit fuel on board because of passenger weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 I occasionally get misinterpreted ATC vectoring...I got a clearance saying after takeoff r turn 150 ,radar vectors Manteca ,rest as filed...after takeoff it was various vectors than an "intercept v 23 to Manteca...that was not in my nav setup and thru me for a loop just as I was entering IMC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 I was going into KSEE (Gillespie, San Diego) a couple of years ago. The approach is super simple, you are on the airway, turn a little to the right and descend to the airport. Well they had me go past the FAF and started vectoring me all over the place way west of KSEE. They finally said "Cleared for the ILS into Lindberg" I said that I wasn't going to Lindberg I was going to Gillespie!. The controller apologized and vectored me back to the east towards KSEE then vectored me around a bit more and said "Cleared for the ILS into Montgomery" I told him again I'm not going to Montgomery I'm going to Gillespie!. He apologized again and handed me off to another controller who climbed me from 3500 back to 10000 for the approach into KSEE. I finally got there. SoCal owes me about $100 in plane use. If they start sending me bills, I think I will send them one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Anyone else get caught in the Washington Center shut down Monday night? Apparently there were "fumes" in the air conditioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 3 hours ago, Mooneymite said: Anyone else get caught in the Washington Center shut down Monday night? I did (for work). Flying Newark to Orlando (EWR-MCO) we got routed so far over the Atlantic that we went straight from New York Center to Jax. Somebody else on the frequency asked about what was going on and the NY controller said that In almost 30 years it was only the second time he'd heard of a Center facility being evacuated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 10 hours ago, thinwing said: I occasionally get misinterpreted ATC vectoring...I got a clearance saying after takeoff r turn 150 ,radar vectors Manteca ,rest as filed...after takeoff it was various vectors than an "intercept v 23 to Manteca...that was not in my nav setup and thru me for a loop just as I was entering IMC... "Vectors to WYPNT" followed by a direct or a course or airway intercept to WYPNT during a departure is pretty standard fare. The timing can be bad, but I've come to expect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted July 13, 2017 Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 Yeah but I think the controller got busy...and just gave me his little nav problem as an after thought...he knew I was a slant indigo and would have been easier for everybody to clear me to an intersection on that airway and away I go...his way ,since I don't have the airway programmed ,I have to ask for an initial vector for an intercept while I am programming the airway...in 10 years flying from this airport I have never seen or heard them do this.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teg916 Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 Whenever I file a flight plan on Foreflight, and get a different "expected" route, I amend my flight plan to match the expected routing. I think that is a good way to avoid confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney1 Posted July 15, 2017 Report Share Posted July 15, 2017 My Monday night route home during the Washington Center evac. Was not fun at 2am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Medders Posted July 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Update from the support chain:Here is what I have learned so far through direct conversation with the various organizations: My correct filed route was successfully transmitted by Garmin Pilot to Leidos; Leidos successfully passed my correct filed route to the FAA computers; Expected routes are passed directly from FAA computers to Garmin, Leidos is not in-path; My strip for the KOKC Clearance controller did NOT include the FRC flag. In other words, the Clearance controller had no indication that my route beyond my first filed fix had changed. The Clearance controller did not make an error. Next steps: The KOKC facility is engaging their internal support team to further diagnose this error. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Great info, David. I had no way of seeing that was going on behind the scenes... Thanks for sharing the details.. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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