Any PIREPS for ElectroAir electronic ignition

[Lee A.]

ElectroAir.net

 

apparently has an STC for several Mooney models and engines including M20TN and Continental IO-550. 

[Rustler]

Lee--

Have had an ElectroAir in my M20K for over a year and would never go back to two magnetos; if I could, I'd replace my remaining mag with an EA. They're not cheap, but I've experienced, perhaps, a quarter-to-half a gallon per hour decrease in fuel consumption, so at some point it pays for itself. Engine is very smooth throughout the operating RPMs, and starts are almost instantaneous. Engine temperatures are a bit lower but not spectacularly so.

 

We had no problems with the installation, but it required some planning to get all the components located ideally. The unit fires the lower plugs, which were changed to Tempest Fine Wires, per the suggestion of EA.

 

[Oscar Avalle]

Lee--
Have had an ElectroAir in my M20K for over a year and would never go back to two magnetos; if I could, I'd replace my remaining mag with an EA. They're not cheap, but I've experienced, perhaps, a quarter-to-half a gallon per hour decrease in fuel consumption, so at some point it pays for itself. Engine is very smooth throughout the operating RPMs, and starts are almost instantaneous. Engine temperatures are a bit lower but not spectacularly so.
 
We had no problems with the installation, but it required some planning to get all the components located ideally. The unit fires the lower plugs, which were changed to Tempest Fine Wires, per the suggestion of EA.
 

Thank you! How about CHTs?


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[mccdeuce]

I have an ElectroAir system in my J.  I like it.  It runs the entire engine.  You get a 20-30rpm drop when securing the mag and a 180-200rpm drop when securing the EIS.   It is definitely doing all the work and as @Rustler said I would really prefer to put two in the aircraft.   

As for CHTs.  Currently running ROP while I chase GAMI spread.  I have high CHTs.   But they were high before I put the system in and I believe it has more to do with air leaks than the system.  I also currently have mine timed at 20  BTDC and I do plan on going to 25 BTDC but not until I bring my CHTs down.  (On last  flight I was able to drop CHTs by trailing cowl flaps, lost 1knot and CHT dropped 40deg.)

ElectroAir as a company - stand up, honest and appreciate their customers.  

[Lee A.]

Thanks!

Maybe I don't understand, but I thought the advantage was to vary ignition timing---by preferably delaying it when full throttle to reduce detonation.  It seems this device could do that, EXCEPT the other MAG is still operating with fixed timing, which at times would produce early ignition.

[aaronk25]

I thought the purpose of this was to be able to run Lop better? As far as your over temp chts. 3 things:

1. Trim down the #1 baffle by 1/2-3/4"
2. Bend the #4 baffle that lays across the top of the cylinder up a bit and stabilize it against the perpendicular oil cooler baffle with a screw or Jb weld. Rob just a little air from the cooler.
3. Set the manual cowl flap linkage adjustment the threaded rod adjustment down on the cowl flaps so the flaps stay 1/2" open in the close position. Also caul around any small gaps that would allow high pressure cooling air to bypass the cooling find. Near the starter etc.


#4 ya I said 4 items I know....if you want to blow 4K buy the power flow exhaust and you will pick up a couple knots and lower CHT by 20-30f at any cruise configuration.

With these mods I went from 400chts + to 330ish



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[Yetti]

If they were smart they would put a screen on their computer and show what the computer is doing.   Better yet use the inputs of CHT and EGT and tune the engine based on those inputs.

[mccdeuce]

9 hours ago, aaronk25 said:

I thought the purpose of this was to be able to run Lop better? As far as your over temp chts. 3 things:

1. Trim down the #1 baffle by 1/2-3/4"
2. Bend the #4 baffle that lays across the top of the cylinder up a bit and stabilize it against the perpendicular oil cooler baffle with a screw or Jb weld. Rob just a little air from the cooler.
3. Set the manual cowl flap linkage adjustment the threaded rod adjustment down on the cowl flaps so the flaps stay 1/2" open in the close position. Also caul around any small gaps that would allow high pressure cooling air to bypass the cooling find. Near the starter etc.


#4 ya I said 4 items I know....if you want to blow 4K buy the power flow exhaust and you will pick up a couple knots and lower CHT by 20-30f at any cruise configuration.

With these mods I went from 400chts + to 330ish



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I have gaping holes around my alternator that I am working to fix right now. Cyl 1 and 4 are my hottest and oil is pretty stable at 194. 

https://www.savvyanalysis.com/flight/1959483/343084c5-dc83-4a67-8285-7d27d7d6c289

 

@Lee A. for the ElectroAir timing: the system advances the timing with decreased MAP. There is a chart in the installation manual. So basically at cruise I get 25 BTDC on my electronic side while the mag is still at 20. The real benefit comes from the fact the EIS puts out 70,000 volts over 20 degrees and the MAG puts out 20,000 volts over 5 degrees. 

@Yetti there are some pretty cool setups for experimental aircraft for controlling electronic fuel and ignition. One injector little too rich - just tap it back 1%... incredibly smooth. 

[INA201]

Do they work with the dual mag IO-360?  What's the approximate installed cost? Thanks

[kevinw]

11 hours ago, Lee A. said:

Thanks!

Maybe I don't understand, but I thought the advantage was to vary ignition timing---by preferably delaying it when full throttle to reduce detonation.  It seems this device could do that, EXCEPT the other MAG is still operating with fixed timing, which at times would produce early ignition.

From the FAQ section at electroair.net:

1. If I choose the option of one mag/one EIS, the mag has a fix firing advance and the EIS has a variable firing advance: how can this set-up work     properly?
Our electronic ignition always fires at the same time as the magneto or earlier. Magnetos are set to fire at fixed timing point (like 25 deg BTDC), period. So the combustion is already underway when the mag fires and hence has very little effect.

I've been very happy with mine. Two recommendations if you install the unit: Get the fine wire plugs and the newer red plug wires. I had some radio interference with the old plug wires but after installing the new ones problem gone. There's a lot of voltage going through them and the red wires have much more resistance. 

@INA201 I believe they are working on a unit for the A3B6D and it might even be out. If you give them a call I'm sure they can tell you the status of it.

[Rustler]

Oscar--

 

Sorry about the lapse here, but I was away for a couple days.

CHTs are running cool and even, 335-340 across the board according to the JPI930.

The variable timing is active until about 7,000' MSL, then remains constant, from what I understand. We're at 7100' here in Taos, so I don't notice much difference in takeoff power.

Absolutely get their wiring harness and keep the wires apart so you don't get cross-wire talk and confuse the system (see photo). Mine happen to be blue, not red, but it is what ElectroAir recommended.

Cost? I think the 4-cyl kits are $3750+/- and the one for the Continental TSIO360 is around $5500. Add installation--and it takes a while to do, especially if your mechanic hasn't done a Mooney--and you're probably talking about $4500-4700 for a 4-cylinder and $6500 for a 6-cyl. YMMV.

McDeuce is right--ElectroAir is a good company, both to their patrons and to their dealers.

 

[jetdriven]

On 7/5/2017 at 6:57 PM, Rustler said:

Lee--

Have had an ElectroAir in my M20K for over a year and would never go back to two magnetos; if I could, I'd replace my remaining mag with an EA. They're not cheap, but I've experienced, perhaps, a quarter-to-half a gallon per hour decrease in fuel consumption, so at some point it pays for itself. Engine is very smooth throughout the operating RPMs, and starts are almost instantaneous. Engine temperatures are a bit lower but not spectacularly so.

 

We had no problems with the installation, but it required some planning to get all the components located ideally. The unit fires the lower plugs, which were changed to Tempest Fine Wires, per the suggestion of EA.

 

You wouldn't want two of those units. they depend on battery power to operate. 

[Rustler]

Yep, you're right. Like I said originally. "if I could." Without a second electrical system the redundancy wouldn't be there.

1 minute ago, jetdriven said:

You wouldn't want two of those units. they depend on battery power to operate. 

 

[xcrmckenna]

I sent them an email the other day, but haven't heard back from them. Does anyone know if they have an stc for the A3B6D?


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[KSMooniac]

I sent them an email the other day, but haven't heard back from them. Does anyone know if they have an stc for the A3B6D?


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Not to my knowledge. I thought several years ago it was supposed to be a priority, even with some backing from TCM/Bendix so they could kill the dual mags for good, but so far nothing has transpired.

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[xcrmckenna]

Not to my knowledge. I thought several years ago it was supposed to be a priority, even with some backing from TCM/Bendix so they could kill the dual mags for good, but so far nothing has transpired.

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That's too bad. I spoke with someone at the company about a year ago and they were hoping to have it available soon.


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[Raptor05121]

I saw a gentleman with an IO-360 on a 2-place homebuilt running dual electronics ignition and fuel injection and he was pumping out some good numbers. 20k ft ceiling, and I don't remember the cruise vs fuel burn, but its was astounding. He says he got quite a drop in burn with going dual ignition. Of course he is experimental...

[mccdeuce]

17 hours ago, jetdriven said:

You wouldn't want two of those units. they depend on battery power to operate. 

Don't necessarily agree with you here - maybe not two units for my current configuration of my Mooney but if configured and built right I would be just fine without a MAG.  Yes it requires outside power but my alternator is very reliable and if it dies I have the battery backup.  (or if I went with a G5 I could have a backup alternator instead of vacuum pump) 

How many times did people fly with Vacuum powered attitude gyros in the clouds?  single point of failure.  Go all electric and you have a battery backup to your Gyro.  For me no different.  

That said I understand peoples hesitation and respect it as their choice.  

 

@KSMooniac @xcrmckenna  ElectroAir has not been able to get the STC for Dual mag ops.  For the Experimental version they have figured it out but as I understood it the certified side is not straightforward through the FAA and not likely. 

[aviatoreb]

I will take the leap if/when emags gets certified.

http://www.emagair.com/

Less expensive to install and they have a built in alternator so they run independently of ships power competing with a standard mag, so it should be more sensible to run dual emags.

[Raptor05121]

We will never get the FAA to sign off on that

 

[gsengle]

We will never get the FAA to sign off on that
 

Why do you say that? Seems like a clever solution!


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[Raptor05121]

Simply because of the history. Experimentals get a $400 LED nav light solution but because the exact same product goes on Brand P, C, B or M, its now $1,400? 

[gsengle]

Simply because of the history. Experimentals get a $400 LED nav light solution but because the exact same product goes on Brand P, C, B or M, its now $1,400? 

There are other stc'd electronic ignitions tho....

The extra cost covers their certification testing....


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[Raptor05121]

Exactly. If we do get it, it'll be so expensive I'll never see it. It's a pipedream to wish for $10,000 engines, $500 digital instruments, and $50 batteries like the automotive world.

[Neal Francis]

Gsengle, who else has an STC for an electronic ignition system?