flying before onboard weather must have been awful

[rbridges]

I know the limitations of ADS-B weather and strikefinders, but they give so much situational awareness.  I don't know how people even thought about flying in the southeast during the summer afternoons before it was available.  A lot of times, you literally can't fly 50 miles at 3PM without coming close to severe rain or a thunderstorm.  I went up to 10K and was still unable to climb above a lot of the cumulus buildup.  GPS and weather are the two best things to come to the cockpit IMO.

[Rmag]

I agree.  Even for VFR flight being able to pick up a destination METAR long before you are there for ceilings. I had a recent flight where there was some scattered clouds reported at the destination before I took off and the TAF forecasted few to scattered  

Enroute at 10,500 I see the METAR reports 5,000 ft overcast.

I start picking airports along my route checking METARs to see where the cloud layer starts and I was able to descend and get below the layer before I got to the destination.

 

[Rwsavory]

Yes, the new tech is great.  But it's still not a complete substitute for staying visual and traveling during the morning hours when t-storms are usually fewer, just like The Old Days.   I have been seen some accidents in recent years where folks were overly reliant on XM weather for thunderstorm avoidance.  

[Danb]

We didn't know any better, used our ADF to pick up stuff our eyes, and moreover flight service. Many times not knowing what was there made little difference, with all the inflight info now, stormscope, Adsb, xm weather its may be more scary. 

 

[Bob_Belville]

I've had a PPL since 1969 and have picked my way around and between hundreds of CB in the South East. I added a Ryan stormscope to my M20E before Ryan sold his technology to 3M so about 1980. IMO it is still the best tool we have. Here's my flight home from Atlanta this afternoon. There were a lot of innocent clouds showing on NEXRAD and the ATC scope but I knew there was nothing to worry about. (The course deviations are ATC traffic patterns around CLT.)  

For Atlanta folks, I was given a STAR into PDK this morning. First time for that for me there.

[201er]

4 hours ago, rbridges said:

I don't know how people even thought about flying in the southeast during the summer afternoons before it was available. 

[toto]

I have been seen some accidents in recent years where folks were overly reliant on XM weather for thunderstorm avoidance.  

The new tech would have produced an incredible safety improvement if it hadn't caused pilots to lower their personal minimums and affected their go/no-go decisions.

Relying on a hand-drawn weather map from a preflight telephone briefing naturally inspires caution. But knowing we've got real-time gizmos to verify weather enroute means too many of us will launch "just to take a look."

Of course, better equipment means better capabilities, and better capabilities means more flyable days. But it would be nice if we'd come out net positive on safety.

[rbridges]

22 minutes ago, 201er said:

true, but in all seriousness, sometimes the cloud cover can camouflage some serious weather.  During some of my course deviations, I was just turning into more "white."

[Jeff_S]

40 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

For Atlanta folks, I was given a STAR into PDK this morning. First time for that for me there.

 

Hey Bob, what took you to PDK? Wish I had known you were coming. As to STARs into PDK, if you're on an IFR flight plan that's the norm these days. I can't remember NOT getting a STAR to get home. Problem is, they keep changing them around...thank goodness for Garmin and GPS steering!

[gsxrpilot]

All the tech in the cockpit is matched by much better tech in the tower, with approach and center. I don't remember ATC offering so much help with weather back when I started flying. But I now regularly get very accurate help from ATC in threading my way around buildups that I might or might not be able to see. And this is whether I'm VFR or IFR. Often times in Texas the build ups are so strong that even though you can be in clear air on the outside, it can still get pretty violent. ATC has helped with the best route between cells on more than one occasion.

 

[Bob_Belville]

8 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

All the tech in the cockpit is matched by much better tech in the tower, with approach and center. I don't remember ATC offering so much help with weather back when I started flying. But I now regularly get very accurate help from ATC in threading my way around buildups that I might or might not be able to see. And this is whether I'm VFR or IFR. Often times in Texas the build ups are so strong that even though you can be in clear air on the outside, it can still get pretty violent. ATC has helped with the best route between cells on more than one occasion.

 

Agree. Yesterday I was asked twice by Atlanta approach about what I was seeing to confirm what they were painting. No doubt to be able to advice others.

[Jerry 5TJ]

Just now, Bob_Belville said:

Agree. Yesterday I was asked twice by Atlanta approach about what I was seeing to confirm what they were painting. No doubt to be able to advice others.

Maybe it was a gentle hint. 

I recall one flight asking for a deviation around a buildup and ATC replied "go anywhere you want, there's nobody else up there, maintain 9,000."  

[Bob_Belville]

9 hours ago, Jeff_S said:

Hey Bob, what took you to PDK? Wish I had known you were coming. As to STARs into PDK, if you're on an IFR flight plan that's the norm these days. I can't remember NOT getting a STAR to get home. Problem is, they keep changing them around...thank goodness for Garmin and GPS steering!

Jeff, it was a brief trip to be with my daughter's family for the internment of our grandson's remains at Dunwoody UMC.  

Agree, SIDs & STARs are great with the GTN 750 and GPSS. I'm also happy to have Garmin Pilot  providing an email with ATC routing changes in my phone before I get to the plane! But coming in from the Northeast before yesterday I've normally been given a single fix north of PDK and then vectors. Outbound toward NC is routinely vectors to Athens, V20... then once in the air I get several welcome changes cutting off corners. With the 750 that means hitting DIR then Flightplan, select the fix and activate. Slick.

 

[Bob_Belville]

4 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Maybe it was a gentle hint. 

I recall one flight asking for a deviation around a buildup and ATC replied "go anywhere you want, there's nobody else up there, maintain 9,000."  

Been there done that more than once. Of course that's not all that reassuring... did you ask yourself why am I the only fool up here amongst this stuff?

[midlifeflyer]

On 7/2/2017 at 10:30 PM, toto said:

The new tech would have produced an incredible safety improvement if it hadn't caused pilots to lower their personal minimums and affected their go/no-go decisions.

Relying on a hand-drawn weather map from a preflight telephone briefing naturally inspires caution. But knowing we've got real-time gizmos to verify weather enroute means too many of us will launch "just to take a look."

Of course, better equipment means better capabilities, and better capabilities means more flyable days. But it would be nice if we'd come out net positive on safety.

 

I think overall we do come out net positive in safety.

Of course more information affects decisions. That's not only the natural consequence of better data and better tools to read the data, but it's the whole idea. I want my doctor's read of an MRI to lead to a different treatment than reading tea leaves.  And I expect the advent of the attitude indicator to have increased the personal minimums of the pilots who used it. Did (and do) some pilots misuse or improperly use or inappropriately use the AI? Sure. Does that mean the AI "caused" them to do that? I sure wouldn't say so.

For each well-publicized pilot who misunderstood what was depicted on cockpit NEXRAD or figured he would push on into bad conditions and flew into a cell he mistakenly thought was not there, there are many, many, many more who have used it to go around a system or divert and wait for system passage, even when a preflight briefing and hand drawn map would say the system wouldn't be there until hours after landing.

Technology or Mark 2020 eyeballs, there have always been pilots who, through ignorance or personality,  fly into weather they were not equipped to handle. And always will be. 

The technology didn't "cause" anything.

[midlifeflyer]

10 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Maybe it was a gentle hint. 

I recall one flight asking for a deviation around a buildup and ATC replied "go anywhere you want, there's nobody else up there, maintain 9,000."  

My wife and I were heading home when my NEXRAD display showed a much faster than predicted frontal area moving toward us. It cut a pretty wide swath so going around it was not an option. The question wasn't whether to divert and land, but when. After informing ATC of my decision to land, I heard the controller ask another aircraft, "do you have in-cockpit weather?"

The pilot took the hint.

[N201MKTurbo]

I remember flying across Wyoming IFR back in the 80s. I inadvertently flew into a cell. I was climbing uncontrollably. My assigned altitude was 9000. I called and informed them that I was in a cell and was climbing through 11000. The controller sounded very upset and insisted that I immediately return to 9000. I told him I was unable and was climbing through 13000. He started yelling at me to return to 9000. Just then a United captain broke in and said he was painting a level 5 cell at the Mooney's position. After that the controller calmly asked me to report when I was back at 9000. Thanks United!

I ended up just shy of 15000 (no oxygen) before I flew through it and was able to return to my assigned altitude. Not terribly bumpy just a very strong up draft.