How High Without Oxygen?

[peevee]

Just now, Yetti said:

I quit doing 14ers when I realized you have to walk down them once you got up there.    I'd much rather earn the climb and enjoy rolling the downhill.  Best ever downhill is Red Mountain Pass to Montrose.

mucho drifto, but my favorite is grays and torreys. I don't get much further west, have to leave too early!

[kortopates]

To counter some oxygen myths or misconceptions.

Medical oxygen contains 0 moisture in the tank - moisture is added after it comes out of the bottle as it is being dispensed.

Moisture in aviation O2 would be very bad and you don't need to be at high altitude or real cold temps. The cooling issue comes from Boyles law and decompressing 2000 psi in the tank just a few psi to breathe. if he didn't cut off your supply I imagine the ice crystals could damage our expensive regulators. Buts its not even a concern these days.

There is zero moisture in 02 produced today by any industrial gas shop. They use air separation technology (including fractional distillation) to produce large batches of moisture free 02 for all their 02 needs e.g., industrial welding 02, Aviators O2, medical O2. Keeping moisture out doesn't cost any more, its a natural byproduct of how they produce it. 

So what's different about Aviators 02? for one it has be tested and results logged to show its purity and moisture content. In the old days before my time, some sources of 02 were not moisture free - hence the concern. But more importantly to us these days, the fill is done with a more thorough cleaning (vacuuming of the receptacle) tank since we're going to breathe it unlike industrial welding O2. This is also true for medical 02. But Medical O2 requires a prescription to be filled and aviators O2 does not.

[carusoam]

So much for the moisture in the medical O2 OWT... nice description Paul!

I would surmise that the medical O2 has a lot of documentation that goes with it. A complete traceability from the day it was compressed to the day it filled your tank...

An ordinary welder isn't going to be so concerned with the extra documentation.

Best regards,

-a- 

[aviatoreb]

12 hours ago, carusoam said:

So much for the moisture in the medical O2 OWT... nice description Paul!

I would surmise that the medical O2 has a lot of documentation that goes with it. A complete traceability from the day it was compressed to the day it filled your tank...

An ordinary welder isn't going to be so concerned with the extra documentation.

Best regards,

-a- 

I have been told by a professor of mechanical engineer needing - whose field of speciality is welding - that welding o2 is extremely pure to ensure quality and consistency of welding.

Edited June 22, 2017 by aviatoreb

[carusoam]

For very high tech / high strength / high quality welding...  no foreign molecules will be appreciated... the impurity can become part of the finished weld... a stress riser or chemical impurity in a Pharmaceutical chemical reactor would be unwelcome...

For everyday welding in the auto repair business or for use as a cutting torch... these processes are a bit more lenient.... 

Ordinary PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

[peevee]

12 hours ago, kortopates said:

To counter some oxygen myths or misconceptions.

Medical oxygen contains 0 moisture in the tank - moisture is added after it comes out of the bottle as it is being dispensed.

Moisture in aviation O2 would be very bad and you don't need to be at high altitude or real cold temps. The cooling issue comes from Boyles law and decompressing 2000 psi in the tank just a few psi to breathe. if he didn't cut off your supply I imagine the ice crystals could damage our expensive regulators. Buts its not even a concern these days.

There is zero moisture in 02 produced today by any industrial gas shop. They use air separation technology (including fractional distillation) to produce large batches of moisture free 02 for all their 02 needs e.g., industrial welding 02, Aviators O2, medical O2. Keeping moisture out doesn't cost any more, its a natural byproduct of how they produce it. 

So what's different about Aviators 02? for one it has be tested and results logged to show its purity and moisture content. In the old days before my time, some sources of 02 were not moisture free - hence the concern. But more importantly to us these days, the fill is done with a more thorough cleaning (vacuuming of the receptacle) tank since we're going to breathe it unlike industrial welding O2. This is also true for medical 02. But Medical O2 requires a prescription to be filled and aviators O2 does not.

https://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182079-1.html

[aviatoreb]

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

For very high tech / high strength / high quality welding...  no foreign molecules will be appreciated... the impurity can become part of the finished weld... a stress riser or chemical impurity in a Pharmaceutical chemical reactor would be unwelcome...

For everyday welding in the auto repair business or for use as a cutting torch... these processes are a bit more lenient.... 

Ordinary PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

Right - that is what I was trying to say - and my understanding - second hand mind you, is that even in relatively standard industrial welding the need for purity to give high quality welds is relatively very high as compared to the need for purity even for medical applications.

[rainman]

I do fly up high regularly to Albuquerque. I have two pulse oximetry (cheap and very accurate). I have a built in system and also an emergency bottle. I'll let the anesthesiologists chime in on the magic numbers on the changes from your resting oxygenation at sea level. I will say that having been in the altitude chamber several times taught me that hypoxic people aren't very good at assessing their symptoms. I keep my pulse ox above 90 and that means I monitor often at lower altitudes. Be safe, monitor and use oxygen when needed. Ray

[RLCarter]

Another issue at higher altitudes is getting dehydrated, so roll that into the mix too

[peevee]

22 hours ago, RLCarter said:

Another issue at higher altitudes is getting dehydrated, so roll that into the mix too

my nose gets super dry and cracks.

[Raptor05121]

On 6/21/2017 at 0:02 PM, Hyett6420 said:

 

so itsNOT about altitude but about YOUR body and how it responds to altitude.  For example, i would hazard a guess that @Raptor05121 with his fully functioning youthful body could go to 10+ without O2 but i cant get above 8.5, and yet can stiill out run Raptor with a 35kg pack on my back over a 30 mile course! (im 53). 

6

I cruise 10.5 all the time and feel exactly the same as at sea level. O2 says I'm high 80s, low 90s. But yes, I cannot run for endurance for crap!

[chrisk]

On 6/20/2017 at 1:30 PM, RLCarter said:

§91.211   Supplemental oxygen.

(a) General. No person may operate a civil aircraft of U.S. registry—

(1) At cabin pressure altitudes above 12,500 feet (MSL) up to and including 14,000 feet (MSL) unless the required minimum flight crew is provided with and uses supplemental oxygen for that part of the flight at those altitudes that is of more than 30 minutes duration;

(2) At cabin pressure altitudes above 14,000 feet (MSL) unless the required minimum flight crew is provided with and uses supplemental oxygen during the entire flight time at those altitudes; and

(3) At cabin pressure altitudes above 15,000 feet (MSL) unless each occupant of the aircraft is provided with supplemental oxygen.

 

The 14,000 feet for 30 minutes or less is something I have taken advantage of before.   A long story, but on one occasion my wife let all the O2 out of the tank.    The next day we were flying in the mountains.   Not being entirely familiar with the area I didn't want to make a wrong turn and find myself in a position where terrain would be a problem.   I had no issues popping up above 12,500 to make sure I was on the right path.