Piloto Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 It puzzles me that two radar equipped big vessels collide on a clear night with calm seas. Specially when one of them is a Navy Ship (USS Fitzgerald) equipped with phase array radars. Unlike airplane radars that are used for weather detection marine radars are mostly used for obstacle detection like boats, coast line, buoys and others. Small sail boats carry a mast radar reflector to enhance their radar signature. A periscope wake can also be detected by Navy radars. These radars (commercial and navy) provide alarm signals for a threat of collision or pirates trying to hijack a ship. The container ship was three times the size of the Fitzgerald thus generating a large radar and acoustic signature. And the Fitzgerald was not a small boat that could not be detected by the cargo ship radar. You can assume that the pilot of the cargo ship fell asleep but on the navy ship besides the pilot looking at the radar you have a crew continuously surveying the area for possible threats (North Korean ships). It bothers me now how well US Navy ships are able to protect US interests when they can't even detect a cargo ship approaching them. Seven dead crew members and a broken ship was the result of this lack of responsibility. If the cargo ship would have hit perpendicular the navy ship it would have split it and sunk. José Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 I have a hard time believing it too. It looks like the destroyer's back is broken. Luckily it didn't sink. They mentioned it was salavagable, we'll see. It will be interesting to see what the investigation turns up. RIP, -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyMitch Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 So very, very sad for the families of the fallen soldiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Somebody was asleep at the wheel. The captains career is over. This will not turn out well for anybody. Especially the seven innocent sailors who died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Who ever was on watch on the bridge of the destroyer ,their career is toast...as fast as that destroyer could sail and maneuver out of harms way....if the watch officer had ordered a course change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Wonder if there was any radio contact on VHF CH 16 before the collision. Normally when boats get in close proximity they alert on CH 16. José Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Peace Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 2 hours ago, MB65E said: It will be interesting to see what the investigation turns up. RIP, -Matt Hello from Kona Matt,, The USA needs Japan and the Philippines to be on our side no matter what. We need their geographic location for North Korea, China and other threats. My feeling is nothing will come out of this collision other than the US sailors losing their career for not keeping watch. There is no way that if it is the cargo ships fault that the other countries will have to pay. And we will never know the truth. It is my understanding that it was a Japanese company with a Filipino crew....not sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, thinwing said: Who ever was on watch on the bridge of the destroyer ,their career is toast...as fast as that destroyer could sail and maneuver out of harms way....if the watch officer had ordered a course change Seven dead and a broken ship in no combat, that captain is facing court martial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Want to bet the radar operator was playing with his (her) phone? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 I was reading the comments on a news story about he crash. I was amazed at the number of people who think it was a plot by (name your enemy) to take out our ship. Granted, the cargo ship did some bizarre maneuvers before the crash, but if nothing else the crew of the destroyer should have been watching it extra careful because of its weird course changes. Trying to hit the destroyer with the cargo ship is like trying to hit a Learjet with a blimp. Not the most effective weapon. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 8 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said: Trying to hit the destroyer with the cargo ship is like trying to hit a Learjet with a blimp. Not the most effective weapon. I don't know. The cargo ship continued to destination with no injuries while the destroyer was towed with 7 dead crew men. Maybe the old cargo ship was testing a new North Korean stealth technology. José 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 23 minutes ago, Piloto said: I don't know. The cargo ship continued to destination with no injuries while the destroyer was towed with 7 dead crew men. Maybe the old cargo ship was testing a new North Korean stealth technology. José The "old" cargo ship is newer than the destroyer. It was built in 2008. The Fitzgerald was commissioned in 1995. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) The ramming technique worked in the old days, and no cannons required José Edited June 19, 2017 by Piloto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 10 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said: Want to bet the radar operator was playing with his (her) phone? 59 minutes ago, Piloto said: Maybe the old cargo ship was testing a new North Korean stealth technology. Modern spy technology is little more than smoking-fast mobile Wifi hotspot to distract the enemy. Overseas I've walked past airport x-ray scanners where the security guy was watching video on his phone placed in front of the x-ray monitor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMuncy Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 A friend of mine, who is a fairly knowledgeable sailor, says that ships have (or at least have the technology) for radar collision avoidance alerts. Wouldn't we assume that would be standard equipment on the destroyer? Wouldn't you think this might be like a stall warning or gear alert? Wouldn't you think that a ship like this would have at least a two person crew in the cabin? No knowledge on my part, just musings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 12 hours ago, Piloto said: Seven dead and a broken ship in no combat, that captain is facing court martial. Maybe not..as long as he left proper orders before he retired to his cabin ...which was also demolished in the collision while he slept.He was airlifted to a Yokohama hospital with head injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 I was on watch at 3 am on the bridge of my friends 120 ft fedship.Abeam Ensenada Mexico a large cruise ship made a left turn into us prob to enter the harbor.Both radars clearly showed the crews ships track.We were on autopilot as I also assume cruise ship was.The difference was the cruise ship was lit up like a circus and easy to avoid by putting our boat in heading mode...if we hadn't been there ,we would have been tboned by a ship weighing 100 x our weight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) This incident proves again that size does matter Edited June 19, 2017 by Piloto 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpilot Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 2 hours ago, DonMuncy said: A friend of mine, who is a fairly knowledgeable sailor, says that ships have (or at least have the technology) for radar collision avoidance alerts. Wouldn't we assume that would be standard equipment on the destroyer? Wouldn't you think this might be like a stall warning or gear alert? Wouldn't you think that a ship like this would have at least a two person crew in the cabin? No knowledge on my part, just musings. Recently spent 18 days on a 42' sailboat in and around Menorca. Never sailed in the dark, always VFR. But we had radar collision avoidance alerts, which would occasionally also alert as we approached land. I'd guess that most well equipped medium-to-large pleasure boats are similarly equipped. But, a human can easily ignore the alert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 hour ago, thinwing said: Maybe not..as long as he left proper orders before he retired to his cabin ...which was also demolished in the collision while he slept.He was airlifted to a Yokohama hospital with head injuries. I understand that the captain is 100% respobsable for the performance of his crew weather he is asleep or not. If his crew did not follow his orders, he is still responsable because he didn't train his crew well enough to be able to follow his orders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMuncy Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just now, N201MKTurbo said: I understand that the captain is 100% respobsable for the performance of his crew weather he is asleep or not. If his crew did not follow his orders, he is still responsable because he didn't train his crew well enough to be able to follow his orders. Is that why a captain goes down with the ship. He is dead anyway? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 29 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said: So is he respobsable, responsable or in fact responsible. His lawyers are going to have a field day with this one. Sorry @N201MKTurbo, just had to pick up on the autocorrect. How could auto correct screw up that bad? I actually know how to spell that one. I just can't type! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markejackson02 Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 If we want to speculate, I would guess that the least senior/experienced crew members were on watch (1:30AM). Since it takes miles to stop/alter course, a small error in judgement could result in a collision. The captain was in his stateroom which was crushed by the collision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryb Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Looks like they didn't get their ADSB upgrade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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