cliffy

Ramp and Other Fees AGAIN!

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So, on a current thread about a Texas airport we see ramp and other fees being $30-$40 range with "Other Fees" Being $5-$15 for the two MEGAs

Money that doesn't go to the airport, it just pays for the MEGA building, tugs and tow bars for the jet crowd. Pay us high fees or don't come to this airport that you helped pay for. 

It reinforces the idea of the "jet set" crowd being ALL pilots to the general public. Anyone with a plane HAS TO BE RICH, SO TAX THEM. JUST LOOK AT THE FACILITY THEY HAVE. 

Let's fast forward to USER FEES THAT ARE COMING, add them in and I see the death of GA (if it hasn't started already)

"SEND US REPORTS OF EXCESSIVE FEES" - What's wrong with that comment? ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS MAKE THEIR OWN PHONE CALLS AND COLLECT THEIR OWN DATA A LOT FASTER THAN "SEND US REPORTS OF HIGH FEES"!!!!!

I've been an AOPA member for a long time but the EAA beat them to alternate certification of appliances

And now all they can say is- "send us reports"? 

These ramp and other fees are going to kill us quicker than cyanide !

Just another name for a Landing Fee. A Landing Fee at an airport we have already paid for with our fuel taxes. 

 

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Just had a thought-

If a MEGAs ramp was actually NOT leased from the city and only the building foot print was, how about a mass flyin, pull on the ramp and have a ramp picnic without going inside? Get press coverage and make a real splash?

Maybe it could be done every weekend some where around the country to protest the usurious fees being charged? 

If its a public ramp on a public airport, why not? 

With only a couple of MEGAs around the country they'd get real publicity every weekend.  Might be fun:-)

 

 

 

 

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Maybe there should be pinned thread with preferred FBOs by state and or city. I am not near as experienced as others and would find that incredibly helpful! Just a thought...

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2 hours ago, BigAl said:

Maybe there should be pinned thread with preferred FBOs by state and or city. I am not near as experienced as others and would find that incredibly helpful! Just a thought...

You'd need a map so you could easily find them- though I feel airnav exists for a reason.

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12 hours ago, cliffy said:

...how about a mass flyin, pull on the ramp and have a ramp picnic without going inside? Get press coverage and make a real splash?

...If its a public ramp on a public airport, why not?


I think the common man watching this on the news might be a bit disgusted at watching "rich people" complain and appeal for sympathy.

If one believes in the science around disgust, and it's economics implications on this matter, then making the common man disgusted is probably not a good idea.

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I called Airnav on the phone to find out why Airnav is so hit, or miss on posting the various fees that FBO's charge.  The answer was very interesting....Airnav would love to, but the FBO's won't cooperate.  They prefer to keep the fees un-published.

It would be nice if there was a way to make FBO's behave in an honest, forthright manner, but apparently they have learned that not publicizing fees is more profitable.  <_<

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Just had to pay 35 dollars at NE Philly.  We were there for about 12 minutes.......

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I brought this up a while back  Many FBOs tell airnv not to post any comments about their FBO

GEE I wonder why?

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Jim

Care to say if it was Atlantic or the other one?

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the other one,,,Jet center I think,,,35 bucks....the last time I was there was about 12 years ago in a GV....same decor and couch blocking the door at the entry..

it looks as if it was not updated since 1985...not being sarcastic.

the ramp is not propeller friendly.

I would try Atlantic next time even if its a few bucks more.

Edited by Jim Peace

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I'm not as tech savvy as some. I'm curious if there is a way to create a live spreadsheet of these FBOs and fees by state. Or one that is preferred by smaller GA. By live I mean one that is able to be edited by any user or set of users. That way business is directed to those who aren't gouging customers. I understand AirNav is close but it's definitely not perfect. Outsiders could post their fees and charges so everyone else can see. 

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12 minutes ago, BigAl said:

I'm not as tech savvy as some. I'm curious if there is a way to create a live spreadsheet of these FBOs and fees by state. Or one that is preferred by smaller GA. By live I mean one that is able to be edited by any user or set of users. That way business is directed to those who aren't gouging customers. I understand AirNav is close but it's definitely not perfect. Outsiders could post their fees and charges so everyone else can see. 

That would be a great service and it would probably get some FBOs to change their evil ways once the light of day was shined on their practices.

The easiest thing would be a blog where you could post your charges and the admin would update the data. I think you would soon get FBOs posting to either correct the data  or brag about their goid rates.

Edited by N201MKTurbo
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Airnav started out as a site where all fuel pricing was pilot / user reported (yes, I've been around that long).  It seems now they make their revenue from the FBO's paying to be listed with their info.  Guess that makes them lean towards NOT POSTING ramp and facility fees if their "paying customers" request that.  That also makes their service a bit less valuable.  Maybe someone can steer us to a site that DOES post those fees.  That site would likely gain a lot of traction with the recent trend of fees and the concern from pilots using these airports.

Here is a post I made just recently regarding Alpena, MI, and pictures of what my home drome charges (much more reasonable) and the facility fee is waived with a fuel purchase.

Tom

Comments from AirNav users
Comments are submitted by their authors and do not reflect the opinion of AirNav, LLC. All comments must adhere to AirNav's Policy on Comments.
From Tom Sullivan on 26-May-2017

 
  4.gif?v=L3K7L3 Good service, friendly staff. I had topped off prior to my flight concerned about fuel service based on a prior comment, but found the old comment was under different management. When I said I didn't need fuel, was advised of the $50 facility fee (changed my mind and added fuel) and the $40 landing fee. This is the first landing fee I've paid in quite a while, and have landed at a lot of airports over the last year. My home airport, about the same size, charges $5 landing fee for similar "transient" planes to mine? 

Iphone 7  June 8, 2017 202.JPG

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16 minutes ago, BigAl said:

I'm not as tech savvy as some. I'm curious if there is a way to create a live spreadsheet of these FBOs and fees by state. Or one that is preferred by smaller GA. By live I mean one that is able to be edited by any user or set of users. That way business is directed to those who aren't gouging customers. I understand AirNav is close but it's definitely not perfect. Outsiders could post their fees and charges so everyone else can see. 

Google Docs offers this service.  You can create an excel style spreadsheet and make it editable to everyone,  just share the link.  

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Again-

We're going in the wrong direction to try to reduce FBO fees. AOPA is on the wrong track here. They need to wake up but I fear they won't. 

It should be the responsibility of the airport sponsor- 

Every airport that takes Federal funds (AIP) should be required to allow access to the outside of the airport without further fees as my fuel taxes and my Federal taxes already pay for 90%  of the airport. Yes, 90%, that's what the Federal government puts up for airport infrastructure. The state usually puts in 5% and the city the same. 

I didn't require the Taj Mahal for an FBO. Not knocking those who want that and want to pay for that but all I need is a tie down and gas, a rest room and a gate to the outside. I can call Uber or Enterprise myself.  

The airport is access to the city. Let's put a gas station on all the Federal highways into a city and charge everyone who wants to go into the city. Buy gas or pay our fee. Its the same thing. How far do you think that would get?

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You're preaching to the choir. Foreflight and other apps display fuel pricing, but it would be better if they could post fees too. I always look at their "comments" section before choosing an FBO as there will often be a poor review of bad service or high pricing. When I get good service I try to post a positive comment myself (see GTU Jet at KGTU).

It does piss me off that I have to call prospective FBOs to get their full pricing scheme which could (should) easily be posted on their websites. When you've got something to hide I guess you hide it.

And keep in mind this isn't a GA Piston Single thing only. I know that the guys in TBMs, Pilatuses, and VLJs are getting ripped off much worse than us. 

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We are all free to post Airnav comments listing the fees we paid on a specific visit.  I try to read all your comments to ferret out the sneaky fees.

However, the really evil FBOs do not allow any comments on Airnav.  If you see blocked Airnav comments for an FBO, rest assured they didn't get blocked because people said nice things.  :o

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The bloodletting continues.

I want to pick up a friend at Stuart airport down here in FLA on Saturday and I sent messages to the two FBO's, Atlantic and Jet Center, asking them if they would charge if I shut down, went inside to fetch my friend, and then got back in and flew off. Atlantic wants $10 for the privilege, to Jet Center's $30.

I agree with what others have said here, that there should be a place on every airport where simple pickup and drop-off's can take place for no charge. This is getting out of hand.

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A friend of mine flew from BOS-MCO commercially. I laughed at the idea of landing at MCO to pick him up so he spent $35 for a taxi to go down the road to ORL Exec. They told him over the phone $20 for a quick turn and burn. We get there, they charge $42. On the ramp for less than 4 minutes. WTF!

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Ha ha ha - you don't know what you are missing!

Try $1000 (yes, a one and three zeros) at Chang Mai/VTCT for basic handling (ie +landing and parking!), then +25% for "out of hours" (eg during the day at a a weekend!) And that is apparently the cheap handling agent :o

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There used to be a port authority area of JFK (haven't personally used it), but you could drop off and pick up in a single for about $15.  I was considering picking up my wife there but found it has been recently shuttered.  It was going to be about $130 for a quick turn at the local signature.  For a single. With no services required.  No thank you. Next time I get augered by an FBO I'm just going to have to order one sandwich for catering.  Just because. 

One thing I love about Pittsburgh's class B is that they'll let you land and taxi back,  no mechanism for landing fees.  In addition the FBO doesn't have totally outrageous fees for pickups last time I flew there.  I've dropped off and picked up without much hassle.  It's Atlantic.  The fuel price is certainly gouge worthy, however. 

On the flip side, the Savannah GA FBO Sheltair were some of the nicest people with the most reasonable fees.  The weather sucked at my intended destination so I landed at SAV and they set me up with a price matched rental car to the terminal prices and overnights on the ramp for the entire week were something like $45. They didn't expect me to buy gas (I can't remember if I did), but the experience was overall very happy smiley I recall. 

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On 6/13/2017 at 4:54 PM, Awful_Charlie said:

Ha ha ha - you don't know what you are missing!

Try $1000 (yes, a one and three zeros) at Chang Mai/VTCT for basic handling (ie +landing and parking!), then +25% for "out of hours" (eg during the day at a a weekend!) And that is apparently the cheap handling agent :o

Chiang Rai?  You flew over there in a Mooney??

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On 15/06/2017 at 5:02 AM, revwatch said:

Chiang Rai?  You flew over there in a Mooney??

Yes, but it was Chang Mai that was really expensive - Chang Rai was "only" 800USD or so. Don Muang/Bangkok was cheap by comparison!

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It does seem like this is a place where the FAA should be involved. Imagine a city that wants to shutdown an airport.  If the FAA will not let them, they can effectively do it with various fees.

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