Trim Before Gear Retraction?

[carusoam]

PP thoughts that come to mind...

1) the plane is flying... (what was the temperature at T/O?, what flap position did you use?, Density altitude?)

2) the plane is producing excess power... enough to climb.

3) The usual (accidental) response to putting the gear down with the right hand...

- not paying attention to what happens with the left hand.

4) when physically exercising your right hand, your brain will naturally try to brace with the left hand.

5) what your brain does with the left hand could be pulling on the yoke...

6) what the plane wants to do when coming off the ground, is yaw to the left.  That's why right rudder is used during the transition and climb.

7) a 45°, uncommanded roll, at slow speed, would be something to actively avoid...

8) I don't recall experiencing one of those...

9) It is OK to actively make the plane stay level.

10) In a 45° bank, half the lift vector is converted from vertical to something unneeded and or unwanted.

11) practicing this near the ground sounds quirky at best.

12) practicing this at altitude sounds a touch safer...

13) maybe the degree of bank wasn't 45°?

14) This seams to be one of those reasons the insurance company gives you a 10hr solo flight limitation.

15) I don't know who Sandy is, but do you really want to put Sandy through uncommanded 45° rolls?

16) Fly the plane, don't let it fly you...?

17) the Mooney dip, is a motion in the vertical plane, not a yaw inducing wag.

18) A yaw at slow speed, high DA, accompanied by an unwanted dip of a wing.... did you hear a stall horn chirp?

19) check your stall horn to see if it is working...?

20) what caused the 45°bank?  (Probably should have started with this question...)

 

My understanding of what happened may not be very clear.  But I share with you what I think you wrote...

Let me know what I missed.

PP observations only. Not a CFI. Just trying to understand what was going on during the flight...

Best regards,

-a-

Edited May 31, 2017 by carusoam

[MBDiagMan]

Without rereading what I wrote, what you missed or what I didn't make clear, whichever it was, is that the wing dip was long after the gear retraction.  The gear retraction was complete and stabilized before the wing dipped.  It was a hot, thermal charged afternoon as it was the other two times that this happened in the 140, a fixed gear aircraft.

[DonMuncy]

 

21 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

This is not to say that I no longer have the wag.  Today, I flew in the hot Texas afternoon thermals.  Sandy and I took off from Sulphur Springs KSLR and I pulled up the gear as soon as I saw some vertical air speed, exhibiting some wag.  Not long after that, the right wing went down at least 45 degrees.  As I pulled on the ailerons, about a second later the wing jerked just a little, but stayed there for another second or two.  I was at pretty low altitude, but I didn't seem to appreciably lose any altitude.  I didn't freak out or anything, but just stayed with it.  Since I didn't seem worried, Sandy didn't get worried.

I have experienced the wing drop as I described three times in the last few years.  Twice in my 140 and today in the Mooney.  All three times it was the right wing that dipped and all three times it was at low altitude just after take off.  I am glad that today, the gear was already up and the climb out was already mostly established, with the wag already finished.

Larry,

I have never seen or heard of anyone's Mooney dropping a wing like that after take-off. (Unless I'm misunderstanding what you are saying.) That would worry me a lot. I think I would talk to Don Maxwell at some length before flying again, but having it happen in two different planes is very confusing. I'm interested in what others say.

On second thought I did have an upset similar once, in some wake turbulence.

[MBDiagMan]

Since each time it has happened, it has been near a runway I have wondered if it could be wake turbulence, but each time it was a sleepy GA airport with almost no traffic.  The commonality is that it ws always a hot, southern afternoon.

[Stetson20]

1 hour ago, MBDiagMan said:

Since each time it has happened, it has been near a runway I have wondered if it could be wake turbulence, but each time it was a sleepy GA airport with almost no traffic.  The commonality is that it ws always a hot, southern afternoon.

Stiff crosswind gust? What I find myself doing now is consciously pushing just a tad forward on the yoke to slightly unload the plane enough to swing the bar that last couple inches. I probably climb out flatter than the book says, but I like to see over the nose. 

Feeling more confident with the plane. I am getting a feel for what is normal and what isn't. Starting to enjoy it more. 

[HRM]

1 hour ago, MBDiagMan said:

...always a hot, southern afternoon.

Something of the norm in SET (Southeast Tejas). Always bumpy, regardless of altitude