Looking for a 'one way' CFI

[ragedracer1977]

I need 5 hours TIT with a CFI when I've purchased my M20C.  The seller offered his CFI, but I'm fairly certain he would not qualify for my insurance requirements, because I believe he only has a few hours Mooney time.  Insurance says CFI needs to have 500TT, 100 retract time, 25 hours in make and model.  Now, the question there is, does that mean ANY M20, or does it specifically have to be in a M20C model?

I would need a CFI to fly with me from the Sacramento area to the Phoenix area.  O41-DVT, to be precise.  That flight is right around 4.5-5 hours.  Maybe another 2 hours of pattern/landing work.  My thoughts would be to fly out commercial one day and do some familiarization training, flying her home the next day.  Or, if CFI flies out to Sacramento, we can do as much in one day as we can, flying her home the same day.

I'm looking to arrange this in the next week or two.  Thoughts on who to call?

Edited May 24, 2017 by ragedracer1977

[midlifeflyer]

 

17 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

Now, the question there is, does that mean ANY M20, or does it specifically have to be in a M20C model?

You'd have to ask you insurer. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I've been in the situation as a CFI a few times, with some surprisingly favorable results.

Many times yes for an equivalent or "lower" model, but not for a "higher" one. For example, an insurer might be quite happily with 25 hours in an Ovatiion to OK a C, but not vice versa. They might also consider the CFI's overall experience and approve one without the book experience. 

Can't be sure, but I suspect in this case, time in any higher alphabet than the C would be acceptable.  But the only way to know is to ask. Best once you have a particular CFI. 

[MBDiagMan]

I would think that CFI's type would be any Mooney for insurance purposes, but unless you are already comfortable with the Johnson bar, or yours has electric gear, you would want someone comfortable with the gear.  It would not be a huge deal, but there are a few things you need to learn to get comfortable with it.  Also, if a CFI has done much Mooney work, they are most likely familiar with the manual gear.

IMHO, a short body is not the "learn from a Mooney expert or you will die" project that some people will try to lead you to believe.  That said, I would indeed recommend that the transition instructor be familiar with Mooney's.

my $0.02,

[jkhirsch]

Send Mike Elliot a message and see what his availability is, he's on here as Mike Elliot.

I think Don Kaye is probably a lot closer though, but I have no personal knowledge of his status with regards to anything.

[mike_elliott]

30 minutes ago, jkhirsch said:

Send Mike Elliot a message and see what his availability is, he's on here as Mike Elliot.

I think Don Kaye is probably a lot closer though, but I have no personal knowledge of his status with regards to anything.

Thanks for the plug, Jeff. Unfortunately, I am booked thru 6/22 at this point, and as things turn out, will be in Phoenix on 6/3 for a week with a new Acclaim owner. Keep in mind the insurance requirements are for the "open pilot warranty". This means the insurance company will pay for a claim if the owner and pilot meeting their time requirements has an incident/accident, but they will in turn, subrogate their losses against the non owner pilot. I require to be added to all my clients policies as named additional insured pilot with a waiver of subrogation to prevent this "hedge" the insurance company has using my assets. 

Think of this when someone hands you the keys to their plane for a quick lap around the patch. While you might meet the open pilot warranty, you are personally insuring the plane unless you have a WOS.

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

I can probably do it.  will send you a message

I am a CFI, CFI-I with 1700 ish total time and a good amount of M20C time.  Closing in on 800 hours in all Mooneys

[thinwing]

If the aircraft is located Sacramento...Don Kaye is your closest choice...also back travel from Phoenix to Sac is pretty easy VI's South West...with that being said...that route is getting pretty hot temp wise!I see his Mooney frequently parked at KSAC so I know he trains people close by

[thinwing]

Oh and o41 has great food and fuel cost...all within walking..who is doing prebuy?

[Nokomis449]

The guy on my right shoulder with the horns and the forked tail is asking if there's any chance you can fly with the current owner's CFI *before* making the deal?  Your insurance company isn't responsible for damages yet, and CFI time is CFI time so 5 hours of instruction in the same plane while someone else owns it should satisfy their TIT requirements.

The guy on my left shoulder with the halo is saying that if you have low Mooney time yourself, you would be better off/safer to have some Mooney-experienced company along for the initial long cross country ride home.

 

[Steve W]

Personally I just did the transition training/5 hours where the plane was located with a local CFI then flew it back solo, it cost me an additional day or two of hotel but I didn't have to worry about getting the CFI home, so the cost was probably pretty close. Obviously this depends greatly in your current times, comfort level in the plane and route, etc.

[ragedracer1977]

3 hours ago, Nokomis449 said:

The guy on my left shoulder with the halo is saying that if you have low Mooney time yourself, you would be better off/safer to have some Mooney-experienced company along for the initial long cross country ride home.

 

This is the page I'm on.  I feel like the 5 hours is likely not enough.  

[ragedracer1977]

3 hours ago, thinwing said:

Oh and o41 has great food and fuel cost...all within walking..who is doing prebuy?

A guy out of Paradise.  Kevin Macy.  He was recommended by a couple of different shops in the SAC area. It seems, right now, guys immediately in the area are packed with airplanes and short mechanics.  We tried to work out taking it to LASAR, but logistics were just not working out. Holiday weekend, his kid graduating HS, etc.  It would be 2-3 weeks before we could get it there.

[Pritch]

I used George Woods out of Woodland just up the road from SAC.  He flies a Mooney Rocket and is listed in the Mooney Flyer.

(530) 414-1679

Pritch

[thinwing]

I think the airplane is based woodland /watts

[thinwing]

Ok I'm close if u get into a jam...

[TheTurtle]

my cfi likes jobs like this.  PM me if you want his contact info.  Hes got 100hours dual in my F with Johnson bar doing IR training with me.  10k hours.  tons of retract time.  and 500 mooney hours in a J.  He's based out of KSNA so youll probably be on the hook for airfare to sac and back from whereever he drops you off but he has a billion Southwest miles so he wont rape you on airfare.

[smccray]

On 5/24/2017 at 2:37 AM, midlifeflyer said:

Many times yes for an equivalent or "lower" model, but not for a "higher" one. For example, an insurer might be quite happily with 25 hours in an Ovatiion to OK a C, but not vice versa. They might also consider the CFI's overall experience and approve one without the book experience. 

Can't be sure, but I suspect in this case, time in any higher alphabet than the C would be acceptable.  But the only way to know is to ask. Best once you have a particular CFI. 

And sometimes the insurers are nuts. Scott Perdue did my transition training: http://airportjournals.com/mooney-announce-new-record/

The factory threw him the keys to that brand new Acclaim. He's one of those really qualified guys- former F15 pilot and a long flying resume.  Owns a stearman and has owned a few bonanzas.  They gave me a bunch of trouble adding him to my insurance he first year because he didn't have any J model time. They wanted him to to do a check-out.  I pushed back and they relented.

[smccray]

On 5/24/2017 at 1:59 AM, ragedracer1977 said:

I need 5 hours TIT with a CFI when I've purchased my M20C.  The seller offered his CFI, but I'm fairly certain he would not qualify for my insurance requirements, because I believe he only has a few hours Mooney time.  

Try adding the sellers CFI to your insurance and see what they say. Make sure the broker knows that the CFI has instructed in that plane.  Just make sure he's someone you can spend a couple of days with.

 

[midlifeflyer]

8 hours ago, smccray said:

And sometimes the insurers are nuts. Scott Perdue did my transition training: http://airportjournals.com/mooney-announce-new-record/

The factory threw him the keys to that brand new Acclaim. He's one of those really qualified guys- former F15 pilot and a long flying resume.  Owns a stearman and has owned a few bonanzas.  They gave me a bunch of trouble adding him to my insurance he first year because he didn't have any J model time. They wanted him to to do a check-out.  I pushed back and they relented.

They can be nuts in both directions. I've been okayed by insurers with zero time in type in aircraft I thought they were crazy to okay me for without at least some dual. 

I guess it's all about who is at the underwriting desk that day. Most of the time I've found them to be pretty reasonable.

[mike_elliott]

11 hours ago, TheTurtle said:

so he wont rape you on airfare

CFI's don't set the airfare price. Heck if it were up to cfi's, we would make the prebuy free for you and make the seller give you the next 10 years worth of annuals as part of the deal. But it isn't.....Only the value of our time in your benevolence is under our pricing control, and that should be discussed on the front end.

[jlunseth]

I have been through two or three insurers through AOPA.  All of them look at "M20" time, as time in type.  The specific model is not important to them.  

Someone suggested this, but just to reiterate, you can always ask the insurance carrier to add a specific named pilot.  Sometimes they charge $10 or 20, sometimes they just add for free.  I did that when I bought my aircraft.  I flew my local CFI/II down to Scottsdale to fly the plane home with me.  

If you get the Mooney Flyer, they list Mooney CFIs all over the country.  Hire one locally to do your transition training.

The biggest trick when I first started to fly Mooneys was not the flying, it was the landing.  All that stuff you read about floating, I am convinced, is pilots used to flying aircraft that don't like to stay in the air that much.  It is easy when you learn speed control, but there is definitely a transition period.

[MBDiagMan]

I too added my transition pilot to the policy at no cost.  I had zero Mooney time at that point and he had to ferry the plane to me.  It was easy peasy.  He had a zillion Mooney hours doing mostly Mooney transition training in Spring Branch and Kerrville for many years so the insurance company welcomed him with open arms.

[FloridaMan]

On 5/24/2017 at 11:32 AM, Parker_Woodruff said:

I can probably do it.  will send you a message

I am a CFI, CFI-I with 1700 ish total time and a good amount of M20C time.  Closing in on 800 hours in all Mooneys

I recommend Parker_Woodruff. He flew with me from Minneapolis when I purchased my Mooney.