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While looking over the Electrical System Diagram for my "E" I noticed a couple of things that seemed odd so I checked the Original Maintenance Manual (out dated) and it showed the same. In the  upper right corner (red) it shows a "Probe Temp Sensing-Carburetor, the others was the naming of the fuel sending units lower right corner (Red) "Fuel Quantity Transmitter Left" and "Gauge Unit Fuel Tank-Right". I have a large moving blanket that I will use to cover the windows to block out any light so I can see how bright the new clusters lighting is, if it too bright I will tie it into the dimmer. Question for @Sabremech how did you go about grounding the Oil Pressure sending unit?

Wiring.JPG.6a45d39419ffcad1b311738df2e4a42f.JPG

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Just wanted to say thanks to both of you for posting this so that all can see.  David sent me a copy of his 337 years ago, but the pictures might get me to do the project sooner rather than later.

RL- could you please take a picture of the installation, with mounting screws, without the plastic front piece installed?  Thanks!

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Thanks @Sabremech kinda what I was thinking, I even thought about machining a manifold with a ground screw , @Andy95W the photo above was just a quick fit to see how it would look (fit) there are no mounting holes drilled yet, I will be out at the hangar to properly mount the Frame and will take photos of where and how I mounted it.

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13 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

@M20Doc figures it would be on back order, might have to uncover the Mill & Lathe and make some chips

I recently installed and EDM 900 and machined a block for 3 transducers before I discovered these at Spruce.

Clarence

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On 8/13/2017 at 6:54 PM, Andy95W said:

RL- could you please take a picture of the installation, with mounting screws, without the plastic front piece installed?  Thanks!

@Andy95W The hangar has been a tad warmish and I forgot to take pictures before final mounting. I removed all the gauges from the Frame then 
I removed the sides from the frame because they looked like they would interfere with a Radio rack on the left and the Avionics Master switch on the right (which they did).

There was an existing screw (D) that runs through the gold anodized panel, the Instrument panel and the tube structure, I also removed the screws for the Manifold / Fuel Pressure gauge and moved it up out of the way. With (D) removed it allows the bottom flange on the Frame to slip between the tube and the instrument panel. With the Frame sitting in place I re-installed the gauges from the front and shifted the Frame slightly until it centered in the original panel overlay (best it could anyway)

Frame.JPG.d3ff633f364e74b356593b79cd07af8e.JPG

(B) is a mounting screw for the overlay, as you can see in the picture below the top flange on the Frame interferes with the MP/FP gauge and had to be marked and trimmed (area "A" on the drawing below). With area (A) trimmed and everything back in place I match drilled "D" and "B", "C" was a new hole drilled through the panel and the flange. It was actually fairly easy to fit the Frame & Gauges in place, I did not use a 4th mount in the lower RH corner as it would require drilling through the structural tube running along the bottom of the panel (the Garwin Cluster is held in with 2 screws). I didn't have to trim any of the original panel and only added one #6 screw hole.

Frame2.JPG.520895063ff068b365f1944d8dc69b3b.JPG

Here is drawing I did to help make up for the lack of pictures

PnlDrw.JPG.a3aacdd40bdb86b92b4ec4f7b0ca9ae5.JPG

 

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I tried to like this twice but it wouldn't let me.

Thanks a bunch.  I completely re-did my right instrument panel last year (without the plastic overlay) and this year my Garwin gauges are starting to act wonky.  Go figure.  

With your drawings and pictures, I can make it work with my new panel if I can't get my gauges working right.

Can't thank you enough.

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43 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

 With your drawings and pictures, I can make it work with my new panel if I can't get my gauges working right.

Can't thank you enough.

CHT, Amp and Oil pressure are wired, had to reorder Oil temp sender (I ordered the wrong one). Fuel senders will go in Thursday and/or Friday,  already drained the tanks and leveled the aircraft so they can be calibrated. My IA goes out of town on Tuesday, hopefully the Gauges, Annual and Shadin FF will be finished before he leaves

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  • 7 months later...
On 5/25/2017 at 3:07 AM, RLCarter said:

Damn, who pissed you off? I know the advantages of the digital options but what I don't know is why you would basically slam someone you know nothing about. You said you had no input, if that was true you would have just moved along, but you didn't, you just had to say something even though it was of no help to me, then you top it off by calling me a Cheap Bastard.... Unbelievable 

Ditto,,

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1 hour ago, David Herman said:

Our airplane had two JPI products already on-board when purchased:  an EDM-700 Engine Monitor and a FS-450 Fuel Flow Monitor.

When a fuel gauge on our Garwin Cluster began working intermittently... (after troubleshooting we confirmed it was the gauge) options considered were around $2000 to overhaul the Garwin Cluster or about $3100 to upgrade to an EDM-930. My thinking at the time was upgrade to the primary JPI unit saving time and money by utilizing the probes and sensors already installed ... as well as using the “K-factor” already programmed in the old unit. As mentioned on this thread, upgrading to modern technology, versus paying big money to overhaul old technology seemed to way to go. Right or wrong ... that was my thought process at the time.

Having no exposure to that product line, the G2 or Insight products weren’y even on my RADAR. I must say, especially now that the EDM-930 is coupled with the CiES Digital Fuel  Senders, ... I’m pleased with the result. 

I'm in complete agreement with you Dave. The EDM-930 or 900 are the best way to go. I've got the 900 in my 252 and love it. But if folks are shying away from the 930/900 for cost, the G2 is the next best option. In my opinion the G2 is better than the EDM-700 and the UGB-16. But the EDM-900/930 is better yet.

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I'm in complete agreement with you Dave. The EDM-930 or 900 are the best way to go. I've got the 900 in my 252 and love it. But if folks are shying away from the 930/900 for cost, the G2 is the next best option. In my opinion the G2 is better than the EDM-700 and the UGB-16. But the EDM-900/930 is better yet.

The G2 doesn’t have oil temperature and pressure (G3 does), if going that route, I would consider G3.
Why they called them G# I don’t know. Thought Garmin would trademark those?
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5 minutes ago, teejayevans said:


The G2 doesn’t have oil temperature and pressure (G3 does), if going that route, I would consider G3.
Why they called them G# I don’t know. Thought Garmin would trademark those?

You are correct, but it can't be Primary for either oil temp or pressure. Therefore I'm still required to maintain the original gauges. So in my mind, not worth the price premium over the G2.

I believe the naming convention came from GEM (Graphical Engine Monitor). They refer to their entire line as GEM's and broken down model numbers.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well its been 8 months since I last posted on the gauges and have been meaning to finish up the post for those interested in doing the same. As mentioned earlier Mitchell’s 2x3 cluster fits in place of the Garwin cluster very well with very little trouble. Once the cluster was mounted I moved on to the cluster wiring, the original cannon plug was removed from the aircraft wiring. Some of the original wiring was reused and some was replaced and or added, both the LH & RH wires were replaced to the sending units do to the fact they had been butt-spliced behind the side panels for some reason, not sure why but it looked like crap so I just pulled new wires. The wiring was straightforward, since the new gauges are lit the lighting was daisy chained and ran to their own circuit breaker. The lighting was check on night to see how bright they were, they were fairly dim so I didn’t bother running them through the overhead rheostat.

RH & LH fuel gauges, Oil PSI and Oil Temp were wired to the existing 12v and grounds were run to a ground lug. Next was the fuel sending units, which were bolt on and connect the new wires previously installed. The new Shunt was installed in the original place. Next was the new CHT probe, there again an easy install. The 2 probes remaining are for the Oil Temp & PSI, the original PSI gauge was a wet gauge (oil line to the back of Garwin cluster), a new wire was pulled for the Oil PSI sending unit which is mounted under the cowl. Last was the new Oil Temp sending unit, the old unit had 2 wire were the new only uses one. The wiring took several days, the middle of August in S. Texas is a little tough on a slightly over weight, out of shape 57 year old :).

Let me back up a bit, the new fuel sending unit float arms were bent to an approximation prior to installation, I also had removed the LH & RH top inboard inspection panels so that I could tweak the float arms if needed. Since we were doing an annual at the same time the plane was already on the jacks so it was leveled per the manual. Reaching in through the top inspection holes the floats were rotated through their entire movement to verify E (empty) and F (full), after minor tweaking they correctly read at each end of the range. The inspection panels were re-sealed and installed and allowed to dry for 5 days (72 hrs was cure time). Now came the moment of truth how accurate were they going to be between Empty & Full, 2 gallons was added to each side then pumped out with the electric boost pump, leaving just the non-usable amount in the tanks. Both read empty when the master was turned on, as they should, I added 1 qt of fuel per side as my IA sat in the plane and verified a slight needle movement as the fuel was added, the next step was to add fuel and note the gallons needed to reach ¼, ½, ¾ and full, I’m happy to report that each quarter mark was with in a half gallon max of where it sound have been, Ill also note that I might have been able to maybe a gallon more on each side. The math was based on 26gal. per the POH and the 1 gallon pumped out initially. After the annual it was run on the ground to check for any oil leaks from the new sending units, all was good so it was time to test fly and all went well. The fuel gauges are very stable in flight and no longer look like windshield wipers, it wasn’t a tough install and can be easily done if it isn’t in August in Texas

Sorry it took so long to add an ending to this thread

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