flumag Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Hi, I'm doing an avionic upgrade in my Mooney that allows me to take the suction system fully out. Could I replace the suction pump with an standby alternator? 14Volt, TSIO360BG1 Thanks Hendrik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) Hendrik, There are a few Mooneys that have gone fully electronic over the years. They have removed their vacuum system and back-up vac system along the way. There is a back-up alternator that may/might be used that could/might be mounted where the original vacuum pump currently resides. One of the challenges of doing this change is getting all of the paperwork in order so the proper back-up AI is allowed to be a back-up device for the primary AI. Hopefully this gives you enough key words to be able to find some ideas that may exist already... Also look at this... http://www.bandc.aero/pdfs/quickfacts_bc410-h.pdf All stuff I learned on MS. Not my knowledge at all... Best regards, -a- Edited May 23, 2017 by carusoam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer7324 Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Hi, I'm doing an avionic upgrade in my Mooney that allows me to take the suction system fully out. Could I replace the suction pump with an standby alternator? 14Volt, TSIO360BG1 Thanks Hendrik Get an Aspen and G5 and just eliminate the entire system. Don't need standby alternator because both have battery backupsSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 hour ago, flyer7324 said: Get an Aspen and G5 and just eliminate the entire system. Don't need standby alternator because both have battery backups Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk There is some question of the legality of these two STC's. My local avionics shop tell me I can't do it to my plane. There are other standbys which are approved at more money. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 Hi, I'm doing an avionic upgrade in my Mooney that allows me to take the suction system fully out. Could I replace the suction pump with an standby alternator? 14Volt, TSIO360BG1 Thanks Hendrik I just removed my vacuum system with a recent avionics upgrade. I looked into a stand-by alternator but the cost, complexity and added weight all were negatives. My comfort level with a dual battery backed up Aspen and an L-3 ESI-500 is good. What I did do was a load calculation to determine what draw the remaining equipment was capable of drawing and color coding the breakers to quickly determine what to unload. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney in Oz Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 I have the B&C as a backup on my J. It came in handy when the alternator belt became loose and probably not far from letting go. As soon as the Hi/Lo volts annunciator flashed, it took over without any input then provided enough power for landing gear and flap operation without loss of electrics to any other system. Worth it in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 22 minutes ago, Mooney in Oz said: I have the B&C as a backup on my J. It came in handy when the alternator belt became loose and probably not far from letting go. As soon as the Hi/Lo volts annunciator flashed, it took over without any input then provided enough power for landing gear and flap operation without loss of electrics to any other system. Worth it in my view. How was it wired into the system? Did it need it's own battery or was there a switching circuit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney in Oz Posted May 24, 2017 Report Share Posted May 24, 2017 Sorry Marauder but the answer I can give is it doesn't need its own battery. As for the rest, my electrical knowledge is hopeless. Below is the link that I'm sure is the standby alternator fitted to my J. It just manages to fit the space where the vac pump was located. The unit was fitted by my aircraft engineer on the basis of the STC approval to PA32 type aircraft. Here in Australia an Engineering Order is obtained by the aircraft engineer from a CASA delegated engineer who specialises in issuing the EO based on information provided regarding aircraft type, the proposed addition, STC details and other information. Probably similar to your 337 field approvals. You will also notice via this link that a wiring diagram is available which hopefully should answer your questions. Victor http://www.bandc.aero/standbyalternatorandcontrollerforthepiperpa32cherokeesixlanceandsaratogastc-pma.aspx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flumag Posted October 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2017 so after some more investigation around a standby alternator I get closer. BandC offers an alternator that can be used as a backup. Its certified up to 20 Amp but should do around 30 Amps at 2400 rpm (according to BandC). BandC also provides me with an 337 from and K Mooney that got a field approval for that. The second alternator has a separate voltage regulator that kicks in if the voltage goes below 12 Volt. The price for the alternator and the voltage regulator is around $2700 plus labor and paperwork for the 337. Not small money but I lost my alternator twice. First in Jeddah ( Saudi ) and some weeks ago in Reykjavik (Iceland). Each event has cost more than a single installation. One time the Alternator was dead and one time the clutch was gone. Does anyone already flying with second alternator in a K (TSIO360GB) and has real world experience? I will get my vacuum pump out and do not nee a T drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 This is an informative article about installing a backup alternator system in a J (a few years old). https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2013/may/pilot/this-mooney-is-out-of-air (I still don't know why you'd install and TKS and a hot prop on a stock J 200 hp). I'd understand a 252 but a NA 200 HP... no idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 Brad, There are those that prefer flight not using an O2 system, and still like the additional protection supplied by anti-ice systems... There are a few that go all-in, an order their O with full Fiki systems. Icing can occur at some pretty low altitudes. A J pilot might really like to have the extra protection. Of course, adding this equipment is outside the realm of an ordinary CB. The AOPA article gave a hint to who would do this... A pilot that has bought his forever plane, uses it 200+ hours per year, and continuously upgrades for better (missing the right word) launchability(?).... dispatch rate? Then there are Mooney pilots that want it all.... 252, Rocket, Acclaim..... PP thoughts only, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 Anthony- totally agree and understand. The only issue I see with that is it makes sense on a Rocket conversion, ovasion, or another plane with excess HP to be able to exit the icing condition effectively. Maybe it works for extra piece of mind if you have a lake effect layer and just need a few minutes to punch through unanticipated icing. However, one of the most important exit strategies is horsepower either in turbo'd or giant engine form. The ovations and such have the extra horsepower. The J - not so much. Just an observation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 Icing is often only a few thousand feet thick. Climbing into colder air or staying aloft while flying out of the region are still good J properties... Doing a U turn definitely isn't as helpful in getting to the destination, as climbing through the flight levels in a FIKI Acclaim. Things that come to a PP's mind... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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