Thoughts on this 1963 M20C?

[The Other Red Baron]

When he says the avionics and panel are original he means it.  Would it be worth pursuing something like this and throwing 20k of panel/avionic upgrades at it or start looking more into the 50-60k range to begin with? 

http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_1221664_1963+Mooney+M20C+200HP.html

For instance this is priced at 59k but why?

http://nebula.wsimg.com/0a89213277fcccc340240e48f6df31eb?AccessKeyId=39C80B935D678D1886D9&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

Edited May 22, 2017 by revwatch

[Desertdoc75]

I spoke a fair bit with Charlie about this bird before I bought 27U. Distantly, everything looked copacetic, however with that time on the engine, a very nostalgic panel / avionics, and the low time flown recently, I dropped it from my list. I had several others on my short list far better equipped at his asking price of $37k  

 

The G model asking price is just completely unrealistic in my personal opinion. 

[The Other Red Baron]

16 minutes ago, Desertdoc75 said:

I spoke a fair bit with Charlie about this bird before I bought 27U. Distantly, everything looked copacetic, however with that time on the engine, a very nostalgic panel / avionics, and the low time flown recently, I dropped it from my list. I had several others on my short list far better equipped at his asking price of $37k  

 

The G model asking price is just completely unrealistic in my personal opinion. 

I think the classic avionics will make me remove it from my list as well, but I'm not finding much out there that is already somewhat updated. Most people say to find something already partially updated than update it yourself.

I'm glad the hours I've spent looking at these planes wasn't for nothing.  I had the same feeling about the G but I thought surely I am missing some trait a Mooney owner would recognize.

[gsxrpilot]

I'm in agreement, the C is over priced at $37K. If you spent $15K for autopilot, $20K for a moving map WAAS GPS, $5K for an engine monitor, $5K for ADSB... you'd have a solid $45K M20C.

And the asking price on the G is just silly. 

[KLRDMD]

11 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

And the asking price on the G is just silly. 

I've never bought anything from Skyview and probably never will. I've had discussions with them in the past about different airplanes and didn't come away feeling good about the whole thing.

[Chocks]

I was going to buy a C model recently that was in pretty good shape. Right up until he said the plane was worth $60k. Nope.

 

Long answer to just say, keep looking. The best C on the planet should be $50k or less, period.

 

 

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[Godfather]

32 minutes ago, "Chocks" said:

Long answer to just say, keep looking. The best C on the planet should be $50k or less, period.

Not saying that I disagree with you but I have not found anything under 30k that at least one of the following...junk panel, run out engine, major neglect including probable corrosion.  IMO a smart buyer will be flexible and pay for the options he/she really wants. 

[Chocks]

Not saying that I disagree with you but I have not found anything under 30k that at least one of the following...junk panel, run out engine, major neglect including probable corrosion.  IMO a smart buyer will be flexible and pay for the options he/she really wants. 

Sure, but find the plane that already includes it. The plane will only ever be what it's worth regardless of it's guts.


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[carusoam]

Are you looking for an E?

because the first AC listed above has a 200hp fuel injected engine in it...

essentially, an E before M20Es were built...

In this case it would probably make sense to compare to other Es...

Putting an E's engine in a C is not a low cost option...

The second plane, listed by skyview is missing a real piece of information.  An M20G does not have an IO360 engine.  If it did, it would be 180hp.  Maybe it is an accident by the internet.

An important thing while selling an airplane for this much dough, the seller has to get the facts right. It only took me five minutes to get confused about the two planes being sold...

Best regards,

-a- 

Edited May 22, 2017 by carusoam

[The Other Red Baron]

5 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Are you looking for an E?

because the first AC listed above has a 200hp fuel injected engine in it...

 

I did notice the fuel injected engine but I'm not searching specifically for an E.  I'm looking for C/E/F/J (K ). Either low enough price point (35k~) to where putting my own avionics in it won't hurt too bad, or something nearly ready to go for 50-75k~.  Currently I couldn't really justify anymore than 75k regardless of how nice it is.

[gsxrpilot]

Based on @carusoam note above that this is actually an E... a 1963 E no less... I'll adjust my estimate.  Add $45K of avionics work and you'll have a $55K E.

I know there are buyers that will be happy with a basic VFR airplane. But I do think it's a poor investment to buy a plane with an antique panel.

Sellers never get the money back they spend upgrading vintage Mooneys. But plenty have upgraded them anyway. And they do come up for sale. And they can be had for reasonable prices.  As @"Chocks" says, a fully upgraded and well maintained C will not fetch more than $50K. And the same fully upgraded E will not likely fetch more than $65K. Full glass panels might bump the value another $10K, but it would have to be @Marauder level quality.

There's already a waiting list for @Bob_Belville M20E, longer than the wait list for a hangar at most airports. And @Marauder is too young to even think of selling his. I hope to put my 252 out of reach as well and fly it forever.

But good ones do come up for sale regularly. You just have to wait and then be ready to buy.

[Greg Ellis]

Just going on what was listed in the G-model on the ad, I did a Vref on it and it was valued at $48,000. Not precise because I don't know what all is on it but I think it would be close since they do not list a GPS etc....  I know some don't beleive in Vref but it would be a place to start.

[Supercop0184]

Based on [mention=7104]carusoam[/mention] note above that this is actually an E... a 1963 E no less... I'll adjust my estimate.  Add $45K of avionics work and you'll have a $55K E.

I know there are buyers that will be happy with a basic VFR airplane. But I do think it's a poor investment to buy a plane with an antique panel.

Sellers never get the money back they spend upgrading vintage Mooneys. But plenty have upgraded them anyway. And they do come up for sale. And they can be had for reasonable prices.  As [mention=14160]"Chocks"[/mention] says, a fully upgraded and well maintained C will not fetch more than $50K. And the same fully upgraded E will not likely fetch more than $65K. Full glass panels might bump the value another $10K, but it would have to be [mention=9886]Marauder[/mention] level quality.

There's already a waiting list for [mention=8913]Bob_Belville[/mention] M20E, longer than the wait list for a hangar at most airports. And [mention=9886]Marauder[/mention] is too young to even think of selling his. I hope to put my 252 out of reach as well and fly it forever.

But good ones do come up for sale regularly. You just have to wait and then be ready to buy.

I've been having fun updating mine. Paul is right! You wont get all the money "back" from avionics installs..but the more you have the more bad ass it will be making people want it more when you sell it. I'll be getting the new garmin electric AI this year at Oshkosh. Why? Cause MERICA!!

 

 

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[Wildhorsesracing]

You can ask any price when selling something, but finding a gullible buyer that is willing to overpay for something is always a challenge.  Sounds like that is the objective of the G model advertisement.

 

[Jerry 5TJ]

I have found that when I'm buying, most of the sellers are asking far too much for their junky aircraft.

When I am selling, my immaculate airplane is seriously undervalued in the marketplace.  

 

[wcb]

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20C&listing_id=2267232&s-type=aircraft

 

Here is a link to my M20C that I have listed.  I have it listed at 37k or I will stay in it as a partner.  This plane is mechanically in tip top shape (if it were not I obviously would not stay in as a partner) and has a new interior.  You can also see some of my pictures on here.  Would be nice to add a G430W and fresh paint but other than that I would fly it anywhere.

Edited May 31, 2017 by wcb