PTK Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 On 5/17/2017 at 4:03 PM, Josho said: Well, I've made an offer, but they seem to be unwilling to have a PPI done anywhere but at their hangar. Too much drama. Seller probably knows something you don't and is afraid the airplane will be found non airworthy and be grounded. Frankly, that's not your problem. He's not doing you any favors. On the contrary, you're extending the seller too much validation and acceptance by even making an offer on their logs missing airplane. I'd just quietly walk away without any explanation. Let them wonder what happened. Think about this for a moment. This is a 1967 airplane missing 41 years worth, or 80%, of airframe logs! That's 80% of its documentation. All you have is the 20% while been sitting in the hangar. Effectively it's missing airframe logs because that 20% is useless. To give you a point of reference, when I negotiated to acquire my airplane the previous owner offered and was happy to fly it to the MSC of my choosing for a ppi. That's how it should be. Of course he had nothing to hide as the airplane was meticulously maintained by Dugosh since birth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 I would make sure that the owner knows that nothing can happen during a pre-buy inspection that would ground an airplane. That is as long as the annual is current. This is well documented and explained both by Savvy (Mike Busch) as well as Don Maxwell, JD Castile, etc. Assuming the customer knows this and still won't let you take it to the shop of your choice, and at your expense for a PPI, I wouldn't buy the plane. Full stop. Unfortunately he'll still sell the plane, there are plenty of suckers out there. There are about five or six of them on this forum now after buying shitty airplanes that will cost more to get airworthy than it would have cost to buy a model or two up the Mooney line. Don't join that club. A seller who won't let you take it to a reputable MSC for a pre-buy isn't a reputable seller and should be treated as such. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean S Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 I looked at this plane. Went and did a walk around. Battery is dead. Not flown much in the last five years. IIRC the prop times didn't add up. After 30 minutes in the hangar with this plane gut instinct said steer away. I could be completely wrong, but with this one I would get yer PPI done at Maxwell. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N5756v Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Full stop . Your willing to foot the bill for flying back and forth to your guy to do a pre buy and he won't let you sorry walk away . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 23 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: Unfortunately he'll still sell the plane, there are plenty of suckers out there. There are about five or six of them on this forum now after buying shitty airplanes that will cost more to get airworthy than it would have cost to buy a model or two up the Mooney line. Don't join that club. A seller who won't let you take it to a reputable MSC for a pre-buy isn't a reputable seller and should be treated as such. If you know enough to know what you are getting into, then it can be a good transaction. Some people enjoy bringing things back from the dead. Once you have been through the plane, then it can be way better than something that you jump in and turn the key. In the jump in and turn the key scenario, you don't know what will bite you coming up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20F Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Make sure that all STC's, 337's, etc. are documented in the new books. You can't just take the FAA disc for this you really need to ensure anything and everything added made it into the new books and into a 337/STC/etc. The best Mooney mechanic many would say missed 337 on my pre-buy annual and subsequent annual and I had complete logbooks; logbook entry; STC; etc. but a missing 47yr 337 that caused some issues. In fairness I missed it as well. Paperwork is the most important thing when it comes to a plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 29 minutes ago, Yetti said: If you know enough to know what you are getting into, then it can be a good transaction. Some people enjoy bringing things back from the dead. Once you have been through the plane, then it can be way better than something that you jump in and turn the key. In the jump in and turn the key scenario, you don't know what will bite you coming up. I agree, but those people are not buying the plane because it's all they can fit in the budget. If you've got an $80K budget and choose to buy a $30K plane so you can build it the way you like... its a beautiful thing. But if you're buying at the edge of your budget, it needs to be turn-key or it can ruin you. It can still ruin you, but is less likely to do so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted May 18, 2017 Report Share Posted May 18, 2017 Just now, gsxrpilot said: It can still ruin you, but is less likely to do so. dood we strap ourselves behind 200 horses and launch into the sky. We are one small step away from ruin... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertGary1 Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 17 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: I agree, but those people are not buying the plane because it's all they can fit in the budget. If you've got an $80K budget and choose to buy a $30K plane so you can build it the way you like... its a beautiful thing. But if you're buying at the edge of your budget, it needs to be turn-key or it can ruin you. It can still ruin you, but is less likely to do so. Worse mistake people do is buy a plane and plan on immediate upgrades. Then they get hit with unexpected repairs. Best to wait a couple years before dumping money. Would be too bad to have a new Garmin 750 sitting in the hanger because of a cracked cylinder. -Robert 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 The other thing that will be very very hard is the AD compliance list. Unless the Engine was overhauled as recent as the log books cover, there are some ADs that would hard to verify. The year of the airframe will also be an issue with ADs on the mid 70s airframes many of the ADs were handled at the factory. But there are still some that would need to verified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravoman Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 With all that's on the line with an aircraft, and for those who place their trust in us to fly with us in our pIanes, I wouldn't touch a 60s plane with no logs prior to 08 in a million years. I don't think I'd even fly in one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 If it's been flying regularly and has been annual'ed on schedule for the last 9 years, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKlott Posted May 21, 2017 Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) I only looked at the partial engine log books and the smoh numbers just don't seem to make sense to me. As of 5/01/2009 it indicates 683.1 smoh. On 10/05/2010 it indicates 429.8 smoh. How does that happen? Especially since the total time on the engine went from 3789.2 as of 5/01/2009 to 3798.56 on 10/05/2010. My advice would be to RUN ...not walk...away from this one. Also see a note about Main Spar upper cap damage repair in the first airframe log from 11/03/2010. Edited May 21, 2017 by BKlott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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