ragedracer1977 Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 I'm looking for a C, E, or F. F would be most desirable, followed by the E, and then the C. F because it's a little bigger. E because it's 200hp. High and hot is an average day here so I'll take all the HP I can get. I'd like for whatever M20 I get to be IFR capable. A 430 or similar would be ideal but another GPS would be OK. 2 axis A/P would also be nice, but not required. I am not financing. I have cash in hand, so to speak. I'm looking to spend 55AMU or less. This will be the first time I've ever bought a plane and I don't want to screw that up. I tried searching here for what to look for in a pre-buy, etc but the search function is returning way too many results. Since Hoeschen sold his plane (BOOO and congrats at the same time, lol) I'm wondering if you guys might know of any quality examples I should be looking at? I've been browsing TAP, controller, and barnstormers for 3 months, but I just don't really even know what I'm looking at to know if a certain plane is worth my time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) Time to update your avatar. It helps when people get to know you a bit better. They are better able to help you out this way. Two ways to look at this project... 1) I have 55amu, what is the nicest F I can get for 45amu? I need the extra 10 amu for after the sale things... 2) I have 55amu, what is the nicest C I can have? That should leave many amu for after the sale things... The budget is great for a C, and gets a little tight for a well appointed F. If you aren't hauling kids around all the time the M20E makes a great post retirement vehicle.... Best regards, -a- Edited May 12, 2017 by carusoam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragedracer1977 Posted May 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Done. First, I do have kids. 3. Oldest is off the Marine Corps this summer, so he won't be flying with us much - especially not on trips. I have a 14 y/o daughter and 9 y/o son. Ideally we would all 4 be able to go sometimes. I'm imagining primarily it will be me and one passenger. Actually, primarily just me, but... And your questions are spot on. 55amu is my budget, but is not my 'whole' wad so to speak. That leaves 10 or so amu left over, some of which will be spent on pre-buy, travel to get the plane, etc. I pared out 65amu for this purchase. That's what I can reasonably afford when it's all said and done. I'm not particularly partial to any model, but as does everyone else, I want to get the most for my money. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) Kids outgrow the back seats of the M20C. Important to have in mind. They will go once in a while... but, if you intend to bring them every weekend, a long body isn't big enough... Best regards, -a- Edited May 12, 2017 by carusoam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragedracer1977 Posted May 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Thoughts on this one, for instance? http://www.lasar.com/w/id/215/new-plane-details.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragedracer1977 Posted May 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 This one pushes my buttons too. http://www.selectaviationservices.com/1967mooneym20fexec21.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Do you have a way to travel to see it? reading the logs before going any too far is pretty helpful. The hieroglyphs for the second plane indicate many years with little flying from what I can read. The last entry, it had seen a visit to the Mooney doc for some fuel leak fixes... The first plane was showing things like maintained by owner. I didn't see any shoulder harnesses in the photos. No cowl closure. No updated windows like the two piece windshield and the three side windows... Nothing wrong with this, depends on what you like. No gtns or Avidynes... probably need to be 2020 compliant too. Will you be flying IFR? Adding waas and ADSB can be expensive... The PPI should include making sure everything in the ad works. PP thoughts only, not a Mooney sales guy... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragedracer1977 Posted May 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) There's a C that popped up today on barnstormers. 6716U. It checks every box in my head, except for being an F. It has a GTX-330 which, if not already ADS-B compliant, should be fairly straightforward give the 430 WAAS. Only question I have, does it have A/P? Can you tell by looking at the photos? They're fairly limited. I sent a request to the seller for the logs. It's also fairly close to home. Based in Sacramento which is a short commercial flight. My only concern is it seems the current owner only just purchased it either late last year or early this year. Edited May 12, 2017 by ragedracer1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skates97 Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 This one is close to you. http://www.klrdmd.com/N5918Q.html That web page says $45k but it has been listed in the Mooney Flyer for quite a few months and in the May issue the price has dropped to $42,500. @KLRDMD is familiar with the plane. I traded emails with Ken and then with the owner back in November when I was looking for a plane but I didn't want to pay as much for it as he wanted to sell it for so I moved onto a different plane. It might be worth it for you to trade pm's with Ken about it and then go take a look. It's at Chandler KCHD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragedracer1977 Posted May 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 I've seen that one on controller or somewhere. Looks pretty, the panel isn't quite where I want it. Maybe there's room... Hopefully Ken will chime in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean S Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 3 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said: This one pushes my buttons too. http://www.selectaviationservices.com/1967mooneym20fexec21.html I looked at this one. It is a project. Battery dead, missing logs due to house fire. It is basically an orphan that needs someone who wants to fly and tinker after each flight. It's not a bad airplane, it just has room for negotiation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLRDMD Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 6 hours ago, Skates97 said: This one is close to you. http://www.klrdmd.com/N5918Q.html That web page says $45k but it has been listed in the Mooney Flyer for quite a few months and in the May issue the price has dropped to $42,500. @KLRDMD is familiar with the plane. I traded emails with Ken and then with the owner back in November when I was looking for a plane but I didn't want to pay as much for it as he wanted to sell it for so I moved onto a different plane. It might be worth it for you to trade pm's with Ken about it and then go take a look. It's at Chandler KCHD. That one sold yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildhorsesracing Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 11 hours ago, carusoam said: Time to update your avatar. It helps when people get to know you a bit better. They are better able to help you out this way. Two ways to look at this project... 1) I have 55amu, what is the nicest F I can get for 45amu? I need the extra 10 amu for after the sale things... 2) I have 55amu, what is the nicest C I can have? That should leave many amu for after the sale things... The budget is great for a C, and gets a little tight for a well appointed F. If you aren't hauling kids around all the time the M20E makes a great post retirement vehicle.... Best regards, -a- carusoam makes a good point, it might be worth it to buy an F without all of the bells and whistles you don't really want and add the ones that you do. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeyedancer Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 I've got a fair amount of "C" time in a friend's airplane. It's a great two person w/luggage bird ... but trust me, you'll wish you'd gotten the "F" after a couple of hundred hours. The back seat room difference is substantial. Just my 2 cents. ...\ jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfather Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Don't make the mistake many do thinking you can add things avionics/mods/etc cheaply because you know a guy. Buy the plane you want to fly. Older gx and mx20 unit are not worth anything to help recoup funds during panel work (~750 each). Try to find something with a 430, AP, reasonable paint, and good maintenance history. Stay away from eBay unless they state a full refund of deposit if you see the plane in person and decide it's not for you. Never buy a airplane unless you or a IA you trust fully (worked with in the past) has done at least a quick pre-buy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameIsNobody Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Just now, Skeyedancer said: I've got a fair amount of "C" time in a friend's airplane. It's a great two person w/luggage bird ... but trust me, you'll wish you'd gotten the "F" after a couple of hundred hours. The back seat room difference is substantial. Just my 2 cents. ...\ jack And my 2 cents as you stated the ages of your children and the fact that it would commonly be just you or you +1 or two the M20E (and C) are MORE than adequate for hauling. Three adults are fine. Two adults and two (Not FAA standard) high school kids can fit fine for two hour flights. I have two now adult children, but we routinely flew with both kids into their teens with zero problem. I have never wanted for an F with my E in the hanger. A J? Yes. If I were you I would break the bank and get a J. You are not buying my E for $55k. I understand why owners hang on and the planes sit idle. Market is not there. Good luck in your search. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragedracer1977 Posted May 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 I'm looking pretty hard at one in California right now. posted above. Seller forwarded me all the logs. My only concern right now is that he's only owned it for less than 6 months. I want to know why. It's a C that checks pretty much every box. Avionics included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameIsNobody Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Just now, Godfather said: Don't make the mistake many do thinking you can add things avionics/mods/etc cheaply because you know a guy. Buy the plane you want to fly. Older gx and mx20 unit are not worth anything to help recoup funds during panel work (~750 each). Try to find something with a 430, AP, reasonable paint, and good maintenance history. Stay away from eBay unless they state a full refund of deposit if you see the plane in person and decide it's not for you. Never buy a airplane unless you or a IA you trust fully (worked with in the past) has done at least a quick pre-buy. Unless you can find a good deal on a well maintained basic airplane. $4k gets it past 2020 mandate. A lot of used avionics are coming on the market and a couple grand a year for ten years and the plane is where you want it and you got to fly it, enjoy it and "make it yours"... 100% agree with pre-buy. Mandatory to reduce NOT eliminate expensive surprises. If tanks have not been sealed they WILL leak. Not a question of might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameIsNobody Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Just now, bluehighwayflyer said: Agreed. Unless, of course, the two front seaters are "vertically challenged", in which case the back seats of the short bodies become adequate for more than luggage and small children. In fairness, one largish adult can sit side saddle in the back of a short body with a tall pilot and copilot up front, but that is about it. I know of which I speak, being 6'4" and having grown up in and owned a C for 35 years and a J for 11. Wookie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragedracer1977 Posted May 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 1 minute ago, MyNameIsNobody said: And my 2 cents as you stated the ages of your children and the fact that it would commonly be just you or you +1 or two the M20E (and C) are MORE than adequate for hauling. Three adults are fine. Two adults and two (Not FAA standard) high school kids can fit fine for two hour flights. I have two now adult children, but we routinely flew with both kids into their teens with zero problem. I have never wanted for an F with my E in the hanger. A J? Yes. If I were you I would break the bank and get a J. You are not buying my E for $55k. I understand why owners hang on and the planes sit idle. Market is not there. Good luck in your search. Thanks! The majority of my flights with everyone aboard would be well under 2 hours. We have a cabin in the KSOW area (under an hour flight) that we don't visit as often as we like, because it's a 5 hour + drive. That will be my primary mission. My wife has all of her family in San Antonio, so I imagine there would be a couple longer flights a year. But, I'm hard pressed to justify spending double the money for what would be the rarest occurrence. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragedracer1977 Posted May 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Just now, MyNameIsNobody said: Unless you can find a good deal on a well maintained basic airplane. $4k gets it past 2020 mandate. A lot of used avionics are coming on the market and a couple grand a year for ten years and the plane is where you want it and you got to fly it, enjoy it and "make it yours"... 100% agree with pre-buy. Mandatory to reduce NOT eliminate expensive surprises. If tanks have not been sealed they WILL leak. Not a question of might. The one I'm looking at had the tanks resealed by Weep No More in 2015. They seem to be the folks that know what they're doing, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameIsNobody Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 1 minute ago, ragedracer1977 said: The one I'm looking at had the tanks resealed by Weep No More in 2015. They seem to be the folks that know what they're doing, right? You are correct sir. Nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garryowen Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 2 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said: My only concern right now is that he's only owned it for less than 6 months. I want to know why. Try to determine where/who he bought it from and strike up a conversation there. That may tell you all you need to know and put any concerns you may have at ease. Flipping planes is not as uncommon as you might think and there is usually nothing nefarious about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragedracer1977 Posted May 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 So, here's where we're at on a C I'm interested in. I have the logs at Savvy being looked at. SMOH 1300 +/- hours, but 340 since bottom OH (logs show an incorrect bearing or something was used and basically the entire bottom half, including case was replaced. New cylinders 40 hours ago. Plane looks in very nice shape. Leather interior. Looks like all the 201 speed mods. And here's where we're at an impasse. At least in my mind. I told him I like to come out and look at it (I'll fly commercial). If it's GTG, I'll put down a deposit and sign a contract contingent on a pre-buy. Plane is in NORCAL, close to both Top Gun and LASAR. I told him I would pay for the expenses of getting it to one of those places for a pre-buy. He said "I won't fly the plane there. Maybe my CFI would. You should just have your mechanic come to me." This being my first experience, I'm not sure what to take of that. I understand it can be a PITA, the plane was annualled 6 months ago before he bought it. He's not against a pre-buy at all, just not interested in taking it somewhere. Where to go from here? Any good Mooney mechanics that travel for this kind of thing? Any one you guys would recommend? Is even doing that a bad idea? I'm not emotionally attached, but for the price I think I can get it for, with the avionics and mods, it seems a good value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 7 hours ago, Skeyedancer said: I've got a fair amount of "C" time in a friend's airplane. It's a great two person w/luggage bird ... but trust me, you'll wish you'd gotten the "F" after a couple of hundred hours. The back seat room difference is substantial. Just my 2 cents. ...\ jack I have 2800 PIC in my own M20E. I wonder about people with "a fair amount of time" in someone else's plane asking me to "trust me". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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