GX55

[chrixxer]

Plane has an Apollo GX55 linked to the S-Tec autopilot (GPSS). It's archaic and I know the screen is probably on borrowed time, but it works for now. It'll eventually get replaced with a WAAS unit. But is it worth $450 for a Jeppesen database upgrade subscription? (How much is a one time database update? It's listed as an option but without pricing.) I just tried to input a flight plan using the simulator (database dated 1998), and it had everything but one intersection. (It'd be used en route only.)

Also, does anyone know if flight plans are stored in non-volatile memory, or are they lost when the unit is power cycled?

[Godfather]

I think the one time updates are ~$150-175. If you are asking about using the unit to drive your AP on a vfr flight home I would not spend the money. However, if you are trying to fly IFR using the database that might be a decade old I can't recommend that.  Are you sure the install is IFR certified...many are placarded vfr only?

[carusoam]

Some similar experience....

1) As long as the GPS doesn't leave the mount, a small amount of power may be used to keep the memory alive...  same with the FF/totalizer... and frequencies in the radios...  and the electric clock...

2) Some CB club members use the GPS for situational awareness.  They fly VOR to VOR and have a pair of nav comes used as primary nav equipment.  Nobody can tell that the AP is steering based on an old database if the individual points are current.

3) If you can verify all your waypoints in advance, as you did, the database update isn't going to add much to your mission.

4) The first reroute ATC throws you, you will wish you had the updated database.

5) Always have a copy of an up to date database on your iPad. Not for primary nav purposes but to know where all the waypoints are.

6) Have a back-up for your iPad, like the same nav app on your iPhone.... running out of electricity or something would be bad.

7) flying IFR?  To much risk in a new to you plane to start taking short cuts on a database and things like it...

 

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

Edited May 7, 2017 by carusoam

[chrixxer]

13 hours ago, carusoam said:

1) As long as the GPS doesn't leave the mount, a small amount of power may be used to keep the memory alive...  same with the FF/totalizer... and frequencies in the radios...  and the electric clock...

2) Some CB club members use the GPS for situational awareness.  They fly VOR to VOR and have a pair of nav comes used as primary nav equipment.  Nobody can tell that the AP is steering based on an old database if the individual points are current.

3) If you can verify all your waypoints in advance, as you did, the database update isn't going to add much to your mission.

4) The first reroute ATC throws you, you will wish you had the updated database.

5) Always have a copy of an up to date database on your iPad. Not for primary nav purposes but to know where all the waypoints are.

6) Have a back-up for your iPad, like the same nav app on your iPhone.... running out of electricity or something would be bad.

7) flying IFR?  To much risk in a new to you plane to start taking short cuts on a database and things like it...

(1) Good to know, thanks!

(2)-(3) Makes sense, and yeah, it's got dual TN200s and Tri-Nav CDIs, GPS isn't required, but the automation and SA would be nice to have.

(4) Yep. Though input on the iPad (again, for charting / SA purposes and to get a rough idea of the immediate initial heading) is fast and easy. The GX55, not so much (even "Direct" requires spinning for the waypoint type, then dialing it in).

(5)-(6) Always. I "pack" ForeFlight before every trip, on my iPad and my iPhone (.and for this trip my iPad Pro, which I usually use just for flight planning but will have with me). Also carry a 4.8W 12V charger, cables, a 10,500 mAh battery pack...

(7) Plan is to fly VFR but weather may dictate IFR. <$200 for a one time database update makes sense. $450 for a subscription does not, I don't think...

Thanks!!

[bradp]

Call Jepp before you go.  Try to see if they have an ability to transfer your subscription to a new device if your plans are to get the GX55 updated to something else.  It's a perfectly good navigator and your SA is built into your iPad devices.  They've always been helpful on the phone with me.  

Make sure you're comfortable with the equipment before launching into IMC.  

I'd personally err on having a database updated for a long flight home.  

[chrixxer]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

Call Jepp before you go.  Try to see if they have an ability to transfer your subscription to a new device if your plans are to get the GX55 updated to something else.  It's a perfectly good navigator and your SA is built into your iPad devices.  They've always been helpful on the phone with me.  

Make sure you're comfortable with the equipment before launching into IMC.  

I'd personally err on having a database updated for a long flight home.  

I'll call Monday.

Yeah, I've downloaded and read the avionics manuals, and have setup several flight plans in the GX55 simulator (works with Wine, fortunately).

[chrixxer]

Well, that's a bust. To update the GX55 database I need a Jeppesen Skybound 3-in-1 adapter they don't sell anymore, and I can't find for sale anywhere. It's a standard PCMCIA card; why it couldn't have been a FAT filesystem CF or something I could just copy a file to like anything else, IDK. Meh.

[KSMooniac]

I've got that programmer for my 530W/430W boxes that I purchased in 2007 when it was the only choice. They come up for sale from time to time on Beechtalk. If you're in a pinch, you could purchase the newer programmer and send it to me, and I'll send you the old one. (It still works, always stored indoors at home, etc.)

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

[Godfather]

20 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

I've got that programmer for my 530W/430W boxes that I purchased in 2007 when it was the only choice. They come up for sale from time to time on Beechtalk. If you're in a pinch, you could purchase the newer programmer and send it to me, and I'll send you the old one. (It still works, always stored indoors at home, etc.)

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
 

+1

Put a wtb ad up or send your card to someone who has a adapter and pay them to update it. 

[chrixxer]

Not in a pinch, not really. Flight plans are currently VOR to VOR, which I can program into the GPS (they don't change) for GPSS on the S-Tec, but use actual NAV radios for navigation and the iPad for situational awareness. We'll be a /U, and I'm okay with that. The database was worth updating if it was as simple as whipping out the credit card and bleeding at Jeppesen, but the more involved it gets the less likely it becomes. Way too much else on my plate over the next 12 days...

[chrixxer]

Okay, my local FBO had the 3-in-1 adapter sitting in a dust-covered box in the back of a drawer. I'm borrowing it for the trip, and taking a laptop along so I can update the card. Jeppesen was helpful over the phone, and $150 for the "Americas South" database for 28 days, and I should be ready to rock-and-roll. GPSS FTW.

[chrixxer]

So the GX55 works, and I got the database updated, but, the screen is nice and bright and clear when you first turn it on, but within a few minutes fades to black. I don't think this is the common failure for the GX55's display (which, as I understand it, is dead when it's dead; there's no "it's alive!" moment, however fleeting). Anyone know anything about this unit? If it's an easy or cheap fix (unlikely?), it might be worth keeping in the panel for a few months until I can score a sweet deal on a GNS or save up for a GTN...

[kpaul]

7 hours ago, chrixxer said:

until I can score a sweet deal on a GNS

 

[Godfather]

You might be able to find a used one that recently had the screen replaced. The screens fail in many different ways and Garmin used to repair them for $500 but stopped that service a number of years ago. Might be a better investment to buy a new / used 650 / 440 / 430w versus a sl30 to kill two birds with one stone. 

[chrixxer]

The GPS isnt in the budget yet. Technically, neither is the SL30, but the existing comms were sketchy enough I'm not comfortable relying on them in busy SoCal airspace. And I'll always have a COM2/NAV2 even with the GNS/GTN, so it's not wasted $.

$7K is a good price for the 430,  but it's not the "too good a deal to pass up" price point where I would consider that tech; for a couple thousand more you can step beyond 1990s era 386 processors and into a new 650.

[Andy95W]

Try shining a flashlight on the face of the unit and see if that brightens the display. Sometimes the photocell that senses the ambient light start to fail.

After that, I would check to see if there is a menu for the brightness function.  If there is, then a previous owner might have put it in manual dim mode by accident and didn't know how to get it out.

[chrixxer]

On 5/25/2017 at 7:20 AM, Andy95W said:

Try shining a flashlight on the face of the unit and see if that brightens the display. Sometimes the photocell that senses the ambient light start to fail.

After that, I would check to see if there is a menu for the brightness function.  If there is, then a previous owner might have put it in manual dim mode by accident and didn't know how to get it out.

New twist. Played with it yesterday. With just main, avionics, and the GX55 on (radios, transponder, intercom, autopilot, lights all off), worked fine, screen never went black. Photocell seems to work; flashlight brings brightness up, thumb over it dims the screen but not all the way to black. I did go in and change the brightness setting from Default to High.

Possible it's not getting enough power in flight with other loads on the electrical system? (She's still equipped with a 50A generator and I don't know which VR.) I'm planning on taking her out tomorrow with a CFII for grins, may try playing with different loads (e.g., with GPS nav and GPSS I can kill both NAV radios...).

[Andy95W]

Nice investigative work!

Based on this and your other posts, I am leaning further toward "other electrical issues".  Specifically, your 50A breaker should not be tripping with your fairly normal electrical loads.  Secondly, your GPS should obviously not  be acting the way it is.

One thing points to too much current, the other not enough.  "Other electrical issues".

[chrixxer]

2 hours ago, Andy95W said:

One thing points to too much current, the other not enough.  "Other electrical issues".

So where does one go from here, re troubleshooting? I have a Garwin ammeter and a digital handheld multimeter... Or, she'll be at Inland Valley Aviation on Thursday, which is next to Affordable Avionics...

[Andy95W]

I think I would be leaning toward either some component is drawing a crazy amount of current or the generator/voltage regulator is toast when loaded. 

Using the onboard ammeter, your normal load when flying should be about 15 amps max with all radios but no lights or pitot heat on. Try turning on one thing at a time and looking for the component that gives a big jump. Since you have a generator, you will need to do this above 2000 rpm so you'll probably need to be in flight, possibly with someone else to help. 

If that doesn't identify anything odd, then your generator could be going bad with internal shorting or arcing under load, which could be doing who knows what downstream in the system, but possibly enough weirdness to pop your CB?

Then there is your 50A breaker itself. Someone said that they do go bad and trip early. This is definitely true, but doesn't explain the GPS. 

Please keep us posted. We all hate that you're going through this, but we are really curious to find out the answers to your issues, in case it ever happens to us!

[chrixxer]

So this was the response from Garmin (not unsurprising, but still disappointing):

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

Unfortunately, product support for the GX 55 ended on 12/01/2014.
As a result, service and repairs are no longer available.

Best Regards,
Dan
Garmin Aviation Support

[chrixxer]

So an avionics guy contacted me: “I could repair yours for $325 flat including return shipping. It'll be one of two things; either the high voltage supply inverter or the row driver chip.” I'm tempted, especially since Pacific Coast Avionics will give me an $800 credit (when I'm ready to pull the trigger on the GTN) for a working GX55. So I'm not 'spending' $325, I'm 'saving' $475. Or something.

[chrixxer]

So the guy I shipped my GX55 "nose" to for a $325 flat rate repair seems to know his stuff:

 

> GX55 Display repair. Replaced display controller board (high voltage inverter section shutting down when warm).

 

> Solid result! I was able to reproduce the symptom clearly; after twenty minutes of full brightness operation the display would suddenly go black.

 

> A capacitor failed, venting electrolyte. Replacing it would fix the board, but I notice it also degraded the smart button ribbon cable.

 

> Bottom line, I replaced the smart button board and the whole controller board with a fresh unit to be sure it won't suffer more corrosion in the future (electrolyte on boards is much like having driven a car over salty roads). I'm hours onto the burn-in test, not so much as a flicker now!

 

> On the plus side, your actual display board is from their second lot; Planar fixed the problem with the first-generation epoxy seals, so yours is likely immune to the common ‘display rot’ issue.”

 

It'll at least tide me over (it's IFR en route certified) until I can swing a WAAS unit. Also, it's linked to the autopilot. If anyone else has an old II Morrow / Apollo GPS unit, so far I can recommend this guy (I'll let y'all know if it fails within the 90 day warranty he provides).

 

Garmin won't work on these units anymore.

[madjano]

Is the avionics guy Keith Peshak?  Just curious who you sent it too.

[bradp]

NIce troubleshooting and clear experience from the avionics guy.