My new E

[Jerry 5TJ]

Get a fuselage cover that extends forward far enough to cover the hatches over the radios.  They can leak. 

My first plane was an E and it lived outside for years waiting for a hangar.   The Bruce's cover I bought lasted about 5 years.  

At SMO you don't have to worry about hail but do watch for corrosion.  

Enjoy. 

[N6758N]

On 9/23/2017 at 11:15 PM, Jerry 5TJ said:

Get a fuselage cover that extends forward far enough to cover the hatches over the radios.  They can leak. 

My first plane was an E and it lived outside for years waiting for a hangar.   The Bruce's cover I bought lasted about 5 years.  

At SMO you don't have to worry about hail but do watch for corrosion.  

Enjoy. 

I don't think @chrixxer will be needing a cover anytime soon Jerry...

[MIm20c]

39 minutes ago, N6758N said:

I don't think @chrixxer will be needing a cover anytime soon Jerry...

Wow, that picture really show how much of an urban environment it was!  Skill and a little luck. The conversation in the background “mom why is there a plane in your parking spot?”

[Jerry 5TJ]

2 hours ago, N6758N said:

I don't think @chrixxer will be needing a cover anytime soon Jerry...

Guess he won't need a cover, no.

Can seek a refund on the Jepp data subscription, too.  

 

 

[jetdriven]

Id be interested to see the tear down and the cause for engine failure. Short of running out of fuel, certified engines are pretty reliable. 

Edited September 26, 2017 by jetdriven

[neilpilot]

35 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Id be interested to see the tear down and the cause for engine failure. Short of running out of fuel, certified engines are pretty reliable. 

You don't have to run out of fuel to experience fuel starvation.

[Bob_Belville]

41 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Id be interested to see the tear down and the cause for engine failure. Short of running out of fuel, certified engines are pretty reliable. 

Byron, I can think of quite a few engine failures of my own or friends. Several on take off: @mooneygirl, in a M20C  @mike_elliott with Billy Gilliland,, in a long body, Richard Simile in a brand new Mooney headed to Sun n Fun, a CFII friend was right seat in a late model Bonanza in which the engine self destructed at 200'. They plowed into the woods @KHKY, An 83 year old life long pilot here is only alive because a witness to the crash rushed to the Super T6 and pulled John out. The crank shaft of the 1000 hp engine broke and the prop left the scene. Jolie's was several years ago but the others were pretty recent. Another CFI lost the engine 3 times over a long career including one over the KY mountains IMC at night. In my first M20E the engine swallowed a valve during climb out in VMC conditions that allowed me to limp to a nearby airport. None of those were fuel starvation.

There have been quite  few more reported here over the past few years.   

[neilpilot]

Not to be pedantic, but Jetdriven's talk about "running out of fuel" is "fuel exhaustion ". Not to be confused with "fuel starvation".

My engine out in 2012 was caused by a piece of torn o-ring that blocked flow internal to the fuel injection system, resulting in fuel starvation.

[Marauder]

28 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

Byron, I can think of quite a few engine failures of my own or friends. Several on take off: @mooneygirl, in a M20C  @mike_elliott with Billy Gilliland,, in a long body, Richard Simile in a brand new Mooney headed to Sun n Fun, a CFII friend was right seat in a late model Bonanza in which the engine self destructed at 200'. They plowed into the woods @KHKY, An 83 year old life long pilot here is only alive because a witness to the crash rushed to the Super T6 and pulled John out. The crank shaft of the 1000 hp engine broke and the prop left the scene. Jolie's was several years ago but the others were pretty recent. Another CFI lost the engine 3 times over a long career including one over the KY mountains IMC at night. In my first M20E the engine swallowed a valve during climb out in VMC conditions that allowed me to limp to a nearby airport. None of those were fuel starvation.

There have been quite  few more reported here over the past few years.   

I think a number of these are never reported. I can think of at least a half dozen engine issues at my current airport that I know never made the "incident" report nor the newsreel (sorry carbon dating myself again).

[steingar]

Aircraft engines are robust indeed, but they're machines and they break.  That's why we practice emergencies.  Obviously, that training paid off for Chrixxer.  Well done.

[mike_elliott]

11 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Id be interested to see the tear down and the cause for engine failure. Short of running out of fuel, certified engines are pretty reliable. 

I keep hearing they are reliable, yet keep reading about their failures, ad's for cranks, rod end bushings, prop hubs, mags, fuel servos, carbs. Granted they were reliable compared to their 1940 design standard, but today, it seems not so much.

This koolaid is beginning to taste a bit fermented

[Bob_Belville]

12 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

I keep hearing they are reliable, yet keep reading about their failures, ad's for cranks, rod end bushings, prop hubs, mags, fuel servos, carbs. Granted they were reliable compared to their 1940 design standard, but today, it seems not so much.

This koolaid is beginning to taste a bit fermented

+1!

Last night when I posted a reply to Byron I was thinking about how anal I've become about the IO360 and its accessories. I don't worry about the airframe breaking in turbulence, I don't worry much about weather or navigation but because of the engine I use Savvy, Blackstone, and Camguard. I personally check the oil screen and cut the oil filter. I just bought a boroscope and I bug Lynn Mace for his opinion on stuff frequently. I usually cruise at 65% and I've spent many hours tweaking baffles and baffles seals, changing oil pressure springs, analizing the oil cooler and vernatherm behavior... I bought this monster a fancy JPI EDM 930. Some of you know the drill. So I was thinking about the contrast to my 3 road vehicles. I have a '98 Dakota with a 5.7 l Hemi V8. It probably logs 2000 miles a year. It's parked outside and goes weeks at a time without being started. The oil gets changed about once a year. It has never failed to start nor has it ever needed oil, it could not be more reliable. Ditto for my 2004 Crossfire that was built by Mercedes but is not the least bit temperamental even though it too lives outside and gets relatively little use.

And if a North Korean missile discretely took out the truck's Hemi and left the vehicle intact I could get a brand new V8 for considerably less than the $53,738 that Lycoming needs for an IO-360-A3B6. With or without a core charge.  

[mike_elliott]

6 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

+1!

Last night when I posted a reply to Byron I was thinking about how anal I've become about the IO360 and its accessories. I don't worry about the airframe breaking in turbulence, I don't worry much about weather or navigation but because of the engine I use Savvy, Blackstone, and Camguard. I personally check the oil screen and cut the oil filter. I just bought a boroscope and I bug Lynn Mace for his opinion on stuff frequently. I usually cruise at 65% and I've spent many hours tweaking baffles and baffles seals, changing oil pressure springs, analizing the oil cooler and vernatherm behavior... I bought this monster a fancy JPI EDM 930. Some of you know the drill. So I was thinking about the contrast to my 3 road vehicles. I have a '98 Dakota with a 5.7 l Hemi V8. It probably logs 2000 miles a year. It's parked outside and goes weeks at a time without being started. The oil gets changed about once a year. It has never failed to start nor has it ever needed oil, it could not be more reliable. Ditto for my 2004 Crossfire that was built by Mercedes but is not the least bit temperamental even though it too lives outside and gets relatively little use.

And if a North Korean missile discretely took out the truck's Hemi and left the vehicle intact I could get a brand new V8 for considerably less than the $53,738 that Lycoming needs for an IO-360-A3B6. With or without a core charge.  

but Bob, being in the Bible belt, you surely know that air cooled internal combustion engines are the work of the devil!

[Bob_Belville]

1 minute ago, mike_elliott said:

but Bob, being in the Bible belt, you surely know that air cooled internal combustion engines are the work of the devil!

Mike, If I were you I would not be talking like that. Don't you know that "she" knows where your personal voodoo. doll lives?

[chrixxer]

Not easily seen in that picture are the three brand new Goodyear Flight Special IIs, pristine newly installed MD-200-306 and SL30, $2300 in avionics labor ...

Looks like I should be in the market for an E or F soon. (Went up in a friend's SR22, with him right seat, Sunday. Not as spooky as I would have feared.)

Torn between wanting an autopilot installed (34BE had an S-Tec 30 that was GPS and NAV coupled, nice on long distances), or waiting for something like the Trio or Garmin to be STC'd. (Altitude and heading/course hold are nice, but intercept and at least VSI climb, if not glideslope coupled approaches, would be so much nicer.)

An already installed WAAS GPS would be amazing.

Starting to casually watch the usual places (TaP, Controller, BS, Lasar)...

And no one wants to know what happened more than I do. Whatever I get, something like a JPI 900 will be an absolute priority (I was already working with my avionics shop on getting one put into 34BE). The one thing that made me nervous about that plane was the lack of information I had in the cockpit, in what was a relatively unknown-quantity aircraft.

As for the "emergency off-field landing" (borrowing the phrase from a fellow Mooney pilot/lawyer) ... Not a lot of great options there if you lose an engine at 1800' AGL, on the descent into KBUR. I did what I could with what I had. Mooney engineering contributed a lot (that fuselage...). Luck helped out a lot, too. 

[N601RX]

Wasn't this engine involved in a propstrike within the last 100 hrs?

[MIm20c]

1 hour ago, chrixxer said:

Not easily seen in that picture are the three brand new Goodyear Flight Special IIs, pristine newly installed MD-200-306 and SL30, $2300 in avionics labor ...

I thought you insured it for 150% of what you paid?  That should help a little for all the upgrades and time you put in it.  But I agree it’s painful to put money into an item and not get reimbursed. 

[chrixxer]

2 hours ago, MIm20c said:

I thought you insured it for 150% of what you paid?  That should help a little for all the upgrades and time you put in it.  But I agree it’s painful to put money into an item and not get reimbursed. 

Insured for $45K hull. Paid about $28K once you factor in getting it IFR current and fixing the flaps valve. Put another $5K into getting the avionics further along the path (SL30, IND-351 then MD-200-306, autopilot and other repairs).

The $45K Es I’m seeing will need a chunk of that redone (old radios, no autopilot, etc). 4BE was rough around the edges but she was setup nicely for X/C, including that GX55 database (en route only and primitive, but I could load a flight plan and, as long as no turn was >10 degrees, leave it hands-off for the flight; kinda nice when you’re chewing up hundreds of miles).

And yes, there was a prop strike, I’d have to check the logs (before I bought it), but ~100 hours ago is probably about right.

[chrixxer]

It’s more that I had things setup nicely and it was nicely (ish) equipped when I got it. Stereo intercom (now with Bluetooth, great for ForeFlight traffic alerts) that most planes don’t have and rewiring for which will be an expensive PITA. Nice autopilot that doesn’t add much to the resale but is a ~$18K investment in a plane without one. Fresh(ish) six-pack. Pristine transponder (was about to install a new encoder). Nice SL30 with a pristine CDI/GS with back course annunciator. (Even had the date input for my last VOR check.) Working en route GPS with autopilot integration, and I’d even spun in the key local VPxxx waypoints. Etc. A previous owner had installed an extra two 12V outlets below the cowl flaps control - super convenient. Landing gear pucks and exhaust were 2014. Generator was running through a Zeftronics voltage controller. Post lights worked and she was easy to fly at night. Push to talk, A/P disconnect buttons on the yoke; altitude hold button on the other handle. RAM clamp held my iPad perfectly in front of me on the yoke. Flew several dog rescue (and other) flights with her, IFR multistate X/C. Only flew her ~6 weeks and ~65 hours, but they were good flights.

She wasn’t perfect, though; lots of old-plane squawks.

The paint was beyond threadbare and after a few months in Santa Monica air, some small bubbles screamed it needed paint, now. Some light surface corrosion on empennage control rods needed attention too. (My Mooney expert flight school owning mentor says those are every 5 year projects out here.) The engine was I think (!!) great - purred - but I was going to have an A&P start it on oil analysis the next change (which I’ve been waiting for him to be healthy to schedule; was going to move from W100+ to W100 and CamGuard). Windshield and windows needed replacing sooner than later. Interior was dated, tired, and ... impacted ... by one of my dogs at 11,000’. Ignition switch ($600?) was showing signs of needing replacement (original key would slip easily out in L/R/Both positions; newly made keys didn’t). Overhead spot lights and some light didn’t work (though I confirmed at least the wiring was hot); $hundreds for a PMA dimmer. The environmental hoses in the cockpit were old and crusty. The door required a very specific technique (pull handle back, almost-slam, then push handle forward). The baggage door hinge was very partially broken (one of the ~1cm tabs comprising the hinge was missing at the forward end), and the “arm” was rusty AF ($40). The tachometer was from an earlier engine/prop combo. The Klixon breaker-switch for the landing light was coming close to failing (always turned on initially, but if you turned it off it was 50/50 if you’d get it back on again) ($hundreds). I wanted an LED landing light ($300). The fuel gauges tended to bounce around when the plane was in motion. I was in the process of getting an engine computer with fuel flow (about $8K installed), along with a move to a modernized panel. The knurled handle for the landing gear had some rust I couldn’t remove, and the lower part of that handle was similarly fugly. Needed to install shoulder harnesses. (Yeah, we walked away from that “parallel parking” job wearing nothing but lap belts.) All adds up.

[Browncbr1]

Glad you're shaking the nerves out.  Hope your next purchase is clean and unmolested!  If you're patient, you should be fine finding a good bird.

[jetdriven]

If like to know more about the prop strike. How it happened. How it was repaired and inspected.  

[N6758N]

39 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

If like to know more about the prop strike. How it happened. How it was repaired and inspected.  

I'm guessing just a new prop, and maybeeee a logbook entry-but that may be a stretch knowing the sellers history. 

[Browncbr1]

5 hours ago, N6758N said:

I'm guessing just a new prop, and maybeeee a logbook entry-but that may be a stretch knowing the sellers history. 

According to my previous conversations with someone in Morristown,  the crank flange is magnafluxed and if runout is within tolerance, a prop is mounted and declared as airworthy.  

Of course, it's impossible to know if runout was out of spec or not after the plane crashes.   

[Browncbr1]

6 hours ago, jetdriven said:

How it was repaired and inspected.  

We'll never know 

[jetdriven]

1 hour ago, Browncbr1 said:

According to my previous conversations with someone in Morristown,  the crank flange is magnafluxed and if runout is within tolerance, a prop is mounted and declared as airworthy.  

Of course, it's impossible to know if runout was out of spec or not after the plane crashes.   

Insurance companies pay for a complete case split and an inspection of the whole crank, rods, accessory gears, etc. For good reason, because prop strikes can cause cracks in many places on crankshafts and the only way to know is to remove it and have it inspected, then reassemble with new bearings etc. Insurance companies don't quibble on this, they pay it because of the liability of not knowing. It's good, sound practice, but not all owners have this done. But I personally wouldn't fly an engine where it wasn't completely inspected in that manner. 

A buyer can go a long way toward peace of mind by asking for the work order for the magnaflux and dimension check of the crank, rods, cam, accessory gears, wrist pins, and oil pump.  Then the receipts for the bearings, wrist pin bushings, rings, gaskets, labor for all of the above, etc. If they don't have that, then pass. It's not worth your life to save 8 grand. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by jetdriven