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Shoulder Harness Upgrade


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UV light has a way of damaging polymer webbing. If the webbing is stiff and not very pliable, it no longer has the strength it did when it was new.

Just another thing that got replaced after 40 years in my C.  My C had been outside for years without a cover.

Best regards,

-a-

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I just placed an order with hooker harness for 2 sets. The plan is to either fabricate or buy a mounting kit to attack the shoulder belt to the frame without drilling/welding to maintain the "minor mod" status. My IA has done these installs before so I'm pretty confident in his abilities.

ill take pictures and let you guys know how it goes. For $400 bucks, this is a significantly better deal. Screw the other company!

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2 hours ago, par said:

I just placed an order with hooker harness for 2 sets. The plan is to either fabricate or buy a mounting kit to attack the shoulder belt to the frame without drilling/welding to maintain the "minor mod" status. My IA has done these installs before so I'm pretty confident in his abilities.

ill take pictures and let you guys know how it goes. For $400 bucks, this is a significantly better deal. Screw the other company!

Please,thank you! Report back on how it goes, and how painful the install was/was not. We are all interested . . . I'm debating replacing my belts, and the metal parts are all in great shape.

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I wanted a multipoint harness.....  could not figure it out... guess a steel clamp around the cage tubing would work.  Seemed like ingress/egress to back seats may be hindered.  Also getting the angles right is correct to help save your back.

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9 hours ago, par said:

The plan is to either fabricate or buy a mounting kit to attack the shoulder belt to the frame without drilling/welding to maintain the "minor mod" status. My IA has done these installs before so I'm pretty confident in his abilities.

I would go the $35.00 for the "minor kit", because it is what was used by the factory it only requires a log book entry. A lot easier than getting a field approval

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29 minutes ago, RLCarter said:

I would go the $35.00 for the "minor kit", because it is what was used by the factory it only requires a log book entry. A lot easier than getting a field approval

You need a field approval or an STC to add shoulder harnesses ......

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29 minutes ago, orionflt said:

not true Alan, the FAA made it easy to install under a minor change, here is the link:

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/harness_kits/media/shoulderpolicy.pdf

 

Thank you for posting that. This should pretty much silence all the nay sayers but i'm sure some will continue to beat the same drum. 

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2 hours ago, Yetti said:

I wanted a multipoint harness.....  could not figure it out... guess a steel clamp around the cage tubing would work.  Seemed like ingress/egress to back seats may be hindered.  Also getting the angles right is correct to help save your back.

If the factory seat belts use the seat as the anchor point then they are redistributing the force thru the tracks and the bolts. correct?  If so why not a retractor under the seat?  The web is then laced to a detachable hooker clamp at shoulder level and then latches to the inner side of the front seats.  Just like in a car.  The person has instead of one click they would have two.  But when leaving the belt would completely retract for rear passengers.  Just trying to solve a simple solution that has become overly complex.  I personally think safety trumps rules.  I'm all about change and making things better:)

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I think the different is the length of travel of the seat in a mooney vs. a car.  It would cause for a really long belt. Since it is try to keep you from getting thrown forward  upon a sudden stop.  I would think the seat rails are not going to rip out of the floor.  The attachment of the seat to the rail is pretty beefy.

There is not much below the seat that is more beefy than the seat rail

Would have to read the AC I posted above to see what the guidance would be for a multi point harness.

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The FAA has a challenge with allowing seatbelt airbags in some Mooneys too.

The STC only covers the long Bodies. The laws of physics covers the rest of the fleet.

 

What do the new Mooneys have this time around? Have they changed the cage running over the passengers lately?

the last time they made changes to the cage, they didn't have shoulder harnesses yet.(?)

keep the changes coming.

Best regards,

-a-

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Even in race cars it's not unusual for some of the belts (especially sub straps) to be attached to the seat hardware, especially in cars used for endurance races where driver changes can happen in the middle of a race.  As long as everything is properly engineered for the loads it's okay to attach it to the seat hardware.  Many (maybe most) road cars do this, too.

15 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Weight and where to put a 2" reel would be the big issue.  Sliding out from under the belt like a car should be prevented with the angle of the seat.

Diagonal shoulder belts are very good at preventing submarining (sliding out from under the lap belt in a frontal crash) unless the seat is excessively reclined.  The idea is that the unbelted shoulder moves forward so that enough of the upper body mass moves forward of the lap belt that it would have to overcome the deceleration forces in order to travel back under the lap belt.   From this standpoint a properly designed, installed, and worn 3-pt harness can be more effective than a 4-pt from the standpoint that it can be harder to prevent submarining with a 4-pt.   If you use a 4-pt, in an airplane or a car, make sure the lap belt is low and *TIGHT* on your hips, as you want your pelvis restraining you rather than the belt riding up and restraining you by your soft organs in a frontal crash, which often falls under the Very Bad category of things to happen in a crash.   Shoulder belts on a 4-pt should not be so tight that they pull the lap belt up into your softer middle bits.

Edited by EricJ
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With the instrument panel so close I would think that an SRS system could be installed in the crash pad on top.  I am sure the size is small enough and the retrofit would be easy just swap pads and install sensors.  They make a staged SRS system that evaluates several inertia points and stages the airbag discharge accordingly.  Honda uses this system on the Goldwing bike. 

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7 hours ago, Dream to fly said:

With the instrument panel so close I would think that an SRS system could be installed in the crash pad on top.  I am sure the size is small enough and the retrofit would be easy just swap pads and install sensors.  They make a staged SRS system that evaluates several inertia points and stages the airbag discharge accordingly.  Honda uses this system on the Goldwing bike. 

Look up Amsafe seat belt SRS.  Then wonder why they are not certified to be installed in the older Mooneys.  Another thing you can wonder about is if I forget to take the Co2 cartridges out of my bike bag, I will get thrown in Federal Prison. But when you realize there is a Co2 cartridge under every seat to inflate the life jacket, it will make you go huh.

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11 hours ago, orionflt said:

not true Alan, the FAA made it easy to install under a minor change, here is the link:

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/harness_kits/media/shoulderpolicy.pdf

 

Eating Crow as we speak.......    What goes with crow...... Apple Jacks?????   Cap'n Crunch ???

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12 hours ago, orionflt said:

not true Alan, the FAA made it easy to install under a minor change, here is the link:

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/harness_kits/media/shoulderpolicy.pdf

 

That's the sort of information that should be being logged somewhere on this site or somewhere for everyone to use at some point.

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That system with a little adjusting would work.  So why have the heavens prevented this from being allowed?  Somebody didn't get a fist full of money maybe?  Makes you wonder.   If installed correctly why would anyone say boo otherwise.  That is better than a seatbelt by itself.  Combined I bet a lot more people survive.  I'd put money on that and I don't gamble.

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  • 1 month later...

I wanted to update this thread with my decision. I placed an order today with Alpha Aviation which included the inertial reel style belt system for the pilot. I realize this is a higher cost system but feel the ability to reach for the fuel and gear without adjusting the  belt will be beneficial going forward. I messaged Paula from the company and she included the minor kit with my order to help with the cost.  I will update this thread with pictures and a user report in a month or so. 

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