KSMooniac Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Saw this in the long thread about new Mooneys but thought it deserved it's own thread: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2017/april/24/mooney-ceo-out Hopefully the third one is the charm for the current owner! This has to be a record, even with the brand's checkered history... Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooneygirl Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 I am hopeful that the owner will pick someone with GA experience and a connection to the factory. Fingers crossed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFromCB Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 About the same level of job security as #2 at ISIS. Granted, their exists always seem a tad more dramatic, but usually related to some sort of flying contraption as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkaye Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 There are probably a number of potential buyers who could afford a new Ultra. The problem is that why would they do that when they could pick up a fantastic Bravo at give away prices, put $100,000 into a top of the line panel and end up with a similar airplane for ¼ the cost all in? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, donkaye said: There are probably a number of potential buyers who could afford a new Ultra. The problem is that why would they do that when they could pick up a fantastic Bravo at give away prices, put $100,000 into a top of the line panel and end up with a similar airplane for ¼ the cost all in? For some business types buying new can be a good financial choice. A Mooney owning friend bought a Bo in December. The timing was on the advice of his accountant. Accelerated depreciation saves on corporate income tax. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackn Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 5 hours ago, donkaye said: There are probably a number of potential buyers who could afford a new Ultra. The problem is that why would they do that when they could pick up a fantastic Bravo at give away prices, put $100,000 into a top of the line panel and end up with a similar airplane for ¼ the cost all in? Because, There are a lot of people who can afford a $1MM toy, and they currently have access to a turbine of some sort. They get a brand new, sleek, sexy, fast low wing certified plane that doesn't fly like a truck. This is a BIG job for the CEO. Cirrus has done a very good job with this part of their business plan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 I spoke with Vivek at Mooney Summit. That's too bad that he and the company have decided to move on from each other. I'm curious as to the next CEO's commitment and vision. -Seth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 I couldn't agree more Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ftlausa Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 The Mooney marketing director is who needs to part ways from the company. If they want to sell Mooney's they need to get potential buyers in them on demo flights. I was sold on Mooney on the first flight. There are lots of Cirruses out there flying and the sales reps will gladly take you up for a spin (well, not a spin literally). If Mooney wants to sell planes, they need to get off their asses and go out to the field and give demo rides and sell them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Certainly there are people who could afford a new Ultra. To Bob's point most of those want the depreciation allowance. In many case it makes more financial sense to buy new if you have a very profitable company. An item's book value as an asset and it's market value are very different. If one were strictly shopping on value, Don's point is spot on, buying a new aircraft over gently used one rarely makes sense from a value perspective. I agree with Jack and Dan that there are many folks out there can afford and want to buy 1MM dollar toy just to have the newest, latest and greatest. I know several of them; I can't think of one that actually made their own money. Maybe there are some self made folks that have new airplane on their "bucket list". However, by in large I find that anyone who'd spend a 1MM outright on a new asset when spending $400,000 used would get them nearly the same operational performance, likely didn't toil for that first (and most difficult) million themselves. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carqwik Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Funny thing is, I don't even know who the Mooney rep is any longer for AZ (unless Wayne Fischer is still active?). That's not a good thing...since the easiest pool of likely buyers for a new Mooney are current Mooney owners. Frankly, I'd go back to a dealer network... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkaye Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, carqwik said: Funny thing is, I don't even know who the Mooney rep is any longer for AZ (unless Wayne Fischer is still active?). That's not a good thing...since the easiest pool of likely buyers for a new Mooney are current Mooney owners. Frankly, I'd go back to a dealer network... Wayne Fisher passed away a couple of years ago. He is missed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 14 minutes ago, carqwik said: Funny thing is, I don't even know who the Mooney rep is any longer for AZ (unless Wayne Fischer is still active?). That's not a good thing...since the easiest pool of likely buyers for a new Mooney are current Mooney owners. Frankly, I'd go back to a dealer network... Richard Simile of Delta aviation is. He lives right there in the Phoenix area now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 21 hours ago, AndyFromCB said: About the same level of job security as #2 at ISIS. Granted, their exists always seem a tad more dramatic, but usually related to some sort of flying contraption as well. Or "Our great leader from N Korea political comedy group" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carqwik Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 Thanks Don...I don't know how I missed that Wayne went west...RIP. Great guy, great stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronk25 Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 In regards to the CEO departure, sales are almost everything to these companies and it seems the leaders haven't recognized that or don't know how to build a sales team that is effective. When touring the mooney booths I see people that are knowledgeable about airplanes but not necessarily about how to sell and certainly not how to build a effective distribution network. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark89114 Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 My guess is the CEO's were given an unrealistic goals. They analyzed what products they had, analyzed the markets, added up their resources and said boy this sure is going to be a S*** sandwich. I love my Mooney, love what I paid for a used product but there is no way I could justify spending the extra $500K for a new one. I know this group is anti-Cirrus with their plastic airplanes, parachutes, etc. but Cirrus has way out marketed and sold their product better than anybody else. Only so many $500K+++ airplanes will be sold. The aviation market just isn't what it used to be and never will be. My 2 cents worth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcstealth Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 9 minutes ago, Mark89114 said: My guess is the CEO's were given an unrealistic goals. They analyzed what products they had, analyzed the markets, added up their resources and said boy this sure is going to be a S*** sandwich. I love my Mooney, love what I paid for a used product but there is no way I could justify spending the extra $500K for a new one. I know this group is anti-Cirrus with their plastic airplanes, parachutes, etc. but Cirrus has way out marketed and sold their product better than anybody else. Only so many $500K+++ airplanes will be sold. The aviation market just isn't what it used to be and never will be. My 2 cents worth. Okay guys. The link from the AOPA had the marketing directors name and his quotes. Let's get his ear, and twist it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 12 minutes ago, Mcstealth said: Okay guys. The link from the AOPA had the marketing directors name and his quotes. Let's get his ear, and twist it. If a marketing person needs advice from me, they're the wrong person for the job. I'd be willing to give advice to the person who hires/fires the marketing person. I'd let them know the message isn't getting through. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 I hate to be harsh, but why would the marketing director want to listen to us? We are primarily a group who buys/bought an efficient, used plane for 1/4 or less (like 1/10 to 1/20!) the cost of a new Ultra. Don Kaye posted how to get a near equivalent plane for about 1/4 the cost of an Ultra and Rmag just created a nearly-new 205 for about $250,000. In other threads there have been discussions, to quote Scott, ad nauseum about the general lack of desire by any of us to by a nearly $1MM Mooney. I do not see where we would be the focus group on how to sell the current line-up of products because while we may have the resources to purchase high dollar planes, our actions up to now have shown us unwilling to do so. And the known future product line is either still in development or dead, depending on where you source your information. I am pathologically optimistic, but unless Mooney can come up with a disruptive product the way companies in other industries have, it looks to be a long slog for them with dim prospects. That is not my desire for the company, but current thinking brought them to this point. What is going to change to break them out of the pack? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcstealth Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 29 minutes ago, Oldguy said: I hate to be harsh, but why would the marketing director want to listen to us? We are primarily a group who buys/bought an efficient, used plane for 1/4 or less (like 1/10 to 1/20!) the cost of a new Ultra. Don Kaye posted how to get a near equivalent plane for about 1/4 the cost of an Ultra and Rmag just created a nearly-new 205 for about $250,000. In other threads there have been discussions, to quote Scott, ad nauseum about the general lack of desire by any of us to by a nearly $1MM Mooney. I do not see where we would be the focus group on how to sell the current line-up of products because while we may have the resources to purchase high dollar planes, our actions up to now have shown us unwilling to do so. And the known future product line is either still in development or dead, depending on where you source your information. I am pathologically optimistic, but unless Mooney can come up with a disruptive product the way companies in other industries have, it looks to be a long slog for them with dim prospects. That is not my desire for the company, but current thinking brought them to this point. What is going to change to break them out of the pack? And I will be on the "different" side of that coin and say between 300-400 Cirrus 22's sell each year. That proves that there is a market no matter what we "think". Mooney must take some of that market share, IF, that is the market it wants to pursue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 10 minutes ago, Mcstealth said: And I will be on the "different" side of that coin and say between 300-400 Cirrus 22's sell each year. That proves that there is a market no matter what we "think". Mooney must take some of that market share, IF, that is the market it wants to pursue. I agree. And the way to take market share is NOT to make "me too" products, although many companies try that approach . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Mcstealth said: And I will be on the "different" side of that coin and say between 300-400 Cirrus 22's sell each year. That proves that there is a market no matter what we "think". Mooney must take some of that market share, IF, that is the market it wants to pursue. Absolutely agree. My post was my poor attempt to say they should be talking to the market that want to buy those types of planes and from what I have read on MS, there may not be many of those among us. Also agree with the IF. 1 hour ago, Hank said: I agree. And the way to take market share is NOT to make "me too" products, although many companies try that approach . . . . Again, completely agree. Don't know what that product might be but hope they come up with one sooner rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ftlausa Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 If you look on the Cirrus website, they advertise pre-owned Cirrus aircraft for sale. They realize that in order to move to a newer plane, the existing owners need to sell. Cirrus also lets you fly a demo plane, and they are happy to discuss with you how you can finance a new plane, and are conversant with the favorable tax rules for purchasing new aircraft. That is how you cater to the market of people that can and are interested in buying new planes. Everyone accepts that Cirrus knows how to market their planes well, so why not learn from their success and emulate it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted April 26, 2017 Report Share Posted April 26, 2017 Running the company... People, Process, Product (parts and service too) Selling Machines... Price/Margin, Know the customer, Take in all trades, organize good financing, key shows, go on the road... Demo, demo, demo... What to do with all those trades... Mooneys get refurbed, refreshed, or sold with a factory inspection for AW. Depending on how many you bring in... What happens with the scraps... Selling off the other brands takes a different business. Like Alan's used car lot and slottery.... I would love to sell Mooneys! Machine sales guy thoughts, not just a PP... Best regards, -a- 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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