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New Mooneys, any interest at all?


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Ever since Mooney started to produce planes again, I have been wondering why the new developments out of the factory have been almost ignored here on Mooneyspace as well as elsewhere. The M10 had almost no discussion whatsoever and the certification of the new M20 series has also largely been a non-event in this forum.

I wonder why that is.

is it the simple fact of life that there is no interest in new airplanes? Because they are too expensive? Because there is no "real" innovation? Or what else is the reason?

To ask provocatively: Does it actually make sense for any of the legacy plane producers to produce new planes at all? Or would be be happy enough to see Mooney as a pure parts manufacturer to keep up the fleet we discuss here?

Personally, I am deeply disappointed about the abandoned M10 series, which I felt would have been the entry model many have been asking for and also would have been a massive step in the direction of new technology. Yet, in this forum, there was one minor thread about it. Why was nobody interested in those planes?

Personally, I like the idea of the Ovation and Acclaim Ultra with the pilot side door and upgraded avionics. Yet, the forum is quiet about it. Why?

So why is the Mooney community so passive about these innovations? Why don't most of us care what happens in Kerrville and Chino?

 

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It's a great question to ponder. The price of a new plane is just way out of my league. In about 30 years I would be able to afford a 2017 Mooney with all of it's outdated avionics and a timed out engine that I could maybe coax along a few more years.

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I assume most of the reason is monetary or no damn chute, Model C is selling well, if I was 10 or more years younger no doubt I'd be on the list, I purchased new in 1988 and basically new in 2006 a Bravo 6 months old.  At Around 70 yrs old my 12 year old Bravo meets my need.

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Interesting side news...

1) The search function has gained the ability to search on three letter words like M10.

2) GS is awake at 3:00am... going flying?

 

Urs there has been plenty of discussion on the topic, from what might be included to what killed the project if it indeed has been killed.

i have done a search of the topic M10. It should be listing everything below in this link.

https://mooneyspace.com/search/?&q=M10&item=22182&sortby=relevancy

 

Overall, the sentiments in this thread are shorter and to the point.  New Mooneys are nice, but too expensive for most of us.  I am looking for my next one.  It will be about 15 years old when I buy it.

Will a second door be enough to change planes for.  Or will I be looking for an M20E?

If the lottery comes through... a new Acclaim is a good idea. Extra door and a pair of snails to match! :)

Best regards,

-a-

Edited by carusoam
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I find it.....intriguing....that the new $900,000 Mooneys have a major parts commonality with my 55+ year old $15,000 plane. Same rivet line, same hockey pucks, same trusses, same vertical stabilizer, etc. The price for what you get for seems exorbitant. $900k, I'd get a used <Insert your favorite sub-1m airplane here>

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44 minutes ago, Raptor05121 said:

I find it.....intriguing....that the new $900,000 Mooneys have a major parts commonality with my 55+ year old $15,000 plane. Same rivet line, same hockey pucks, same trusses, same vertical stabilizer, etc. The price for what you get for seems exorbitant. $900k, I'd get a used C90 King Air.

I was going to like this until I read the King Air part.

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We, existing Mooney pilots brought up on affordable efficient legacy Mooneys aren't going to be impressed with something 3-15 times more expensive just cause it has another door and some eye candy. We already accept the older Mooneys so it wouldn't affect us at that price range. They'd either have to come up with something radically better and cheaper or look for new people to sell to. Cause neither those modifications nor those prices are for the kind of people flying 30+ year old airplanes.

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12 hours ago, Urs_Wildermuth said:

Ever since Mooney started to produce planes again, I have been wondering why the new developments out of the factory have been almost ignored here on Mooneyspace as well as elsewhere. The M10 had almost no discussion whatsoever and the certification of the new M20 series has also largely been a non-event in this forum.

I wonder why that is.

is it the simple fact of life that there is no interest in new airplanes? Because they are too expensive? Because there is no "real" innovation? Or what else is the reason?

To ask provocatively: Does it actually make sense for any of the legacy plane producers to produce new planes at all? Or would be be happy enough to see Mooney as a pure parts manufacturer to keep up the fleet we discuss here?

Personally, I am deeply disappointed about the abandoned M10 series, which I felt would have been the entry model many have been asking for and also would have been a massive step in the direction of new technology. Yet, in this forum, there was one minor thread about it. Why was nobody interested in those planes?

Personally, I like the idea of the Ovation and Acclaim Ultra with the pilot side door and upgraded avionics. Yet, the forum is quiet about it. Why?

So why is the Mooney community so passive about these innovations? Why don't most of us care what happens in Kerrville and Chino?

 

Simple arithmetic. A new one does not equate to an additional 2/3 in value or utility of a used one costing 1/3 as much.

 


 

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Mooney has already proven that it can build the fastest retractable single engine non turbine aircraft on the planet.  However, when considering the purchase price, the  market for that aircraft includes a different category of flight mission.  In other words, at the $700,000+ level, the typical business buyer is looking for depreciation write offs, increased carrying capacity, turbine reliability (although debatable)...These variables shrink the number of buyers to either those who have simply longed for a new Mooney or possibly conquest buyers crossing over from other makes.  Mooney would have a higher probably of financial success to offer a refurbish program for the existing fleet's upgrade opportunities and then build two planes:  one that mirrors the J model--one that competes with brand C and brand C, but at a new 182 price( this could be "massed produced" out of their China facility and then reassembled in the U.S) and the other being the "limited production high end model" built exclusively in Kerrville.  

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If I had $900K I would be looking at a completely refurbished and 0 time Aerostar or a turbine Commander.  It just isn't worth the money in my opinion considering other options out there. 

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Mooney is anything but weak. But stopping the M10 after it was supposedly so close to certification is really scary. One the most recent milestones was a tentative agreement between the FAA and CAAC in China to provide joint FAA & CAAC  manufacturing approval in China for it. As important as the M10 was to China it saddens me to see it stop as it must be for the 60-80 engineers that have been working so hard the last few years in Chino to get the plane certified. But I see no point in speculating on what we don't know. Soon enough we'll hear about details about the change in direction, which supposedly is for a bigger design.

Meanwhile Soaring (Mooney in China) is co-hosting the annual airshow at Zhengzhou along with an airline at their Zhengzhou factory. Here are some shots as they prepare for the show opening on 27th. Their are many aviation businesses and aerobatic shows from around the world participating, but I am just including some Mooney specific photo's and short promotional video; and especially their two pilots I worked with there, Sonny and Sally

 

IMG_3757.mp4

IMG_3758.mp4

58fba9034e17d_ZhenghzouBigCorn.jpg.627d546963b705e76f3130d65fd2be5d.jpg

58fba92152fda_Sonnyflying2.jpg.ed4b44d6993fba1d790f94fe44b43fcd.jpg

Sally.thumb.jpg.6ca87adb615499c5f339e9ec0ca5273d.jpg

BTW, there are few more photo's in my album if anyone is interested to see more.

Edited by kortopates
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I'm much more interested in the recent total returbs we've seen here.  Those are something to behold, and probably much closer to reality for the majority of the forum members.  

Unless I lacked total sense, way Uber loyal to the brand or needed to depreciate a lot of cash for my business, buying new these days makes little sense.  If I had that cash lying around I'd be looking at more capable aircraft- setp or Aerostar or aero commanders that are true all weather aircraft.  

But, hopefully, someone keeps buying them so I can enjoy 35 year old airframes.  

 

 

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This forum and the Mooney name draws a lot of frugal individuals that will never own a new plane. Not because they can't afford the plane but because they feel it is a poor investment.  People are less enthusiastic and often negative about things that are out of reach. 

Buying a used TBM, King Air, etc is a lot different than a new piston plane. Mooney pilots recommend having a spare 10k ready at all times to keep the bird in the air. With the mentioned turbo props you need to have at least 100k ready for this purpose. 

From what I've seen 1 out of 10 prospective buyers stopping by Mooney space are looking for planes north of 100k (most recently sub 50). This is a huge contrast to the buyers looking on other forms (cirrus/BT). 

Everyone would like a new or totally rebuilt Mooney to fly but very few think a company should charge enough to make a profit on this service. I'd love to have someone prove me wrong and put a deposit on a 300k refurbished J. 

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