kortopates Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) 57 minutes ago, chrisk said: Here is my favorite example. They land with the warning horn going off. All it takes is a distraction. It can happen to any of us. Paranoia and a multi check habit is probably the best protection. No wonder! Do you think it would have made any difference if they had the correct device for the gear horn - a pulsating alert rather than the continuous stall alert? Probably not! Edited April 23, 2017 by kortopates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 So what's the instrument with the vertical white stripes between the GPS and the compass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisk Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 47 minutes ago, Hank said: So what's the instrument with the vertical white stripes between the GPS and the compass? After you mentioned it, I had to know. This is as close as I got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottnelson903 Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 If you get in the habit of using "gumps" every time you land, in every airplane (even fixed) you will never get confused and forget your gear. It's simple, use it every time. I have more than 5000 hours in more than a dozen aircraft. Use "grumps"......Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 12 hours ago, Hank said: So what's the instrument with the vertical white stripes between the GPS and the compass? I believe those are various instrument and gauge readouts for things like fuel levels, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 Welcome aboard Scott N., You are going to fit in well. Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milotron Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Oldguy said: I believe those are various instrument and gauge readouts for things like fuel levels, etc. Yes, fuel, volts, amps, etc. I looked at a TB21 before the Mooney, but the cabin has a fairly low roofline and I don't fit well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovecornfields Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 This discussion is really interesting (and that video of the gear up landing was really sobering...especially how that guy kept touching that bent prop in total disbelief over what had just happened).As we all know, it usually isn't "one thing" that causes accidents to happen. There's a guy named James Reason that used this "Swiss cheese" model to explain how accidents happen which I find very compelling. I think one of the concepts it illustrates is that there is no single intervention that can be 100% effective at preventing an accident (the holes in the cheese), and even if you have several layers, they all have holes and if the "accident trajectory" lines up just right you can still have an accident.In other words, the only 100% effective way of preventing gear up landings is to fly a fixed-gear plane. It's just a matter of how many layers of cheese you're willing to put up with and where the holes are.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_modelSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 This discussion is really interesting (and that video of the gear up landing was really sobering...especially how that guy kept touching that bent prop in total disbelief over what had just happened).As we all know, it usually isn't "one thing" that causes accidents to happen. There's a guy named James Reason that used this "Swiss cheese" model to explain how accidents happen which I find very compelling. I think one of the concepts it illustrates is that there is no single intervention that can be 100% effective at preventing an accident (the holes in the cheese), and even if you have several layers, they all have holes and if the "accident trajectory" lines up just right you can still have an accident.In other words, the only 100% effective way of preventing gear up landings is to fly a fixed-gear plane. It's just a matter of how many layers of cheese you're willing to put up with and where the holes are.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_modelSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The only way to avoid aviation accidents is not to fly. That's where that logic gets you. Gear ups with good discipline and warning systems are not inevitable.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yooper Rocketman Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 1 hour ago, ilovecornfields said: This discussion is really interesting (and that video of the gear up landing was really sobering...especially how that guy kept touching that bent prop in total disbelief over what had just happened). As we all know, it usually isn't "one thing" that causes accidents to happen. There's a guy named James Reason that used this "Swiss cheese" model to explain how accidents happen which I find very compelling. I think one of the concepts it illustrates is that there is no single intervention that can be 100% effective at preventing an accident (the holes in the cheese), and even if you have several layers, they all have holes and if the "accident trajectory" lines up just right you can still have an accident. In other words, the only 100% effective way of preventing gear up landings is to fly a fixed-gear plane. It's just a matter of how many layers of cheese you're willing to put up with and where the holes are.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Reminds me of a book I had to read as part of a truck dealership leadership training program years ago "Who moved my cheese?". Tom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 Sniff, Scurry, hem and haw were classic... When management is handing out 'who moved my cheese' and you noticed that your cheese hasn't been moved yet... That's a preemptive maneuver. A good time to strengthen your relationships outside of your organization. Change is coming... The harder/better you work, the better change will be for you. https://www.remo-knops.com/3595/who-moved-my-cheese-book-review/ Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 Yep. About a year after i borrowed it from the boss, i started getting asked to transfer. It sounded good, so i went. A year later, they announced the plant I had left was closing. So my cheese really moved! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor05121 Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 11 hours ago, Yooper Rocketman said: Reminds me of a book I had to read as part of a truck dealership leadership training program years ago "Who moved my cheese?". Tom I read that in 9th grade. Good book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20FanJesse Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 Is the propeller windmilling in that video or is it just at idle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 7 hours ago, Raptor05121 said: I read that in 9th grade. Good book I moved again in the middle of 8th grade, as well as after 9th and after 11th. Growing up, my cheese was a moving target, it never stood still . . . . . Whatcha need to know about moving? If it's just your cheese, follow it; if it's another target, lead it some, depending on its speed; if it's furniture, beg friends or hire college kids to help carry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rmag Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 This has probably been posted before, but I just saw it today. Wonder if there was any conclusive story on what happened here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kortopates Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 36 minutes ago, Rmag said: This has probably been posted before, but I just saw it today. Wonder if there was any conclusive story on what happened here... Being a New Zealand M20C I don't think we'll know for sure. So take your pick, either the Johnson came loose from a worn catch (less likely IMO) or the gear pre-load setting was below spec which is my guess from the amount of nose wheel movement in the grass. Just maybe if the pilot had the elevator all the way back it might have been avoided, but seeing the amount of excessive amount of nose movement early on while slow I kinda doubt it and think the nose pre-load was just too loose and once it gave it brought the connected mains up right with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertGary1 Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Or could have been premature retraction. That's what killed my Bonanza partner did just that. -Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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