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Godfather    235

Personally I feel the 430 value is too high to upgrade. Sell the unit like it is or trade it in to Chase for a 440.  To upgrade to waas and do the swap later will cost more in the long run. 

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bradp    717

I have an email in to Chase asking him if he'd be willing to consider the 430 as a swap. Otherwise I'll buy one from him or Alan outright and just sell the 430. That would cost me about 1 AMU less than sending it to Garmin for the upgrade.

The last permutation I can think of is selling the 430, getting rid of the 296 that sits above it and putting a 530w in its place.  All the helicopters at work have 530s and I like the screen real estate.  Panel surgery would be minimal and the connectors are identical   

(A 540 would have to wait until what my wife says will be my midlife crisis - no fancy sports car for you just a bunch of airplane stuff.  :-)).

Extra 2 AMU worth it for the larger screen?  If you had a choice between a 440 and a 530w, which one?  In the era of wifi networks and iPads I'm thinking the premium for screen real estate in our small panels makes the small guys attractive. 

Anyone use the IFD 100 app and have feedback on its utility with a 440?  Does it make up for the small screen presentation?

 

Eventually I'd like to have Audio Panel, Transponder, GPS and Navcom in the center stack (center post not withstanding) and put an Aera 660 or iPad above the copilot yoke. 


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cnoe    1,062

Happy to see you getting a 2nd AI. I really like my 530W and rely heavily on it. Foreflight (or other EFB) is a good backup though.

New 440, 540, 650, 750 would be nice but I have other upgrade priorities at the moment.


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Marauder    5,672
2 hours ago, bradp said:

Hi all,

I wanted to thank every one for their opinions and advice.  I think this is what I'm  going to go for this summer..

 

(Phase 1)

Probable  

- Garmin G5 AI.  Move current AI driving autopilot to the TC position.  

- Upgrade the GNS 430 to a 430W (probably a 440 eventually but that's a simple slide in that can be replaced later)

 

Maybe

- consider a second G5 as an HSI if they come out with some sort of interface with legacy autopilots at Oshkosh.  If at all possible I'd like to avoid more mechanical gyros.  Get rid of KI-209 and KX-170, replace with SL-30 interfaced to the GI-106.  Determine feasibility of adding a micro  switch to select which RS-232 data feed  drives the G5 HSI as nav source (thanks experimental community).  If no G5 HSI options I'll look for a mechanical one / Sandel vs slotting a G5 HSI for situational awareness and keeping a silly DG just to drive the autopilot.  

 

Phase 2:

ADS-B out/in decisions dependent on whether I go with an avidyne or Garmin solution  

 

Phase 3: 

Hopeful for a digital autopilot option...

Opinions still welcome as no calls estimates or commitments have been made.  Thanks again for all your help. 

Good luck. Just let this happen to you...

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Bob_Belville    2,786
  1. A Stormscope 900 is a bargain and potentially a life saver. I'd rather have it than XM or NEXRAD.
  2. An Aspen might borrow from next year's budget but it gives you GPSS, electronic HSI and more.
  3. Bigger moving map GPS is a very good thing.

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mike_elliott    1,790
On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 11:53 PM, KSMooniac said:

The only part of that option I don't like is adding another mechanical gyro to my plane when I'm trying to reduce them. The compatible solid state gyro is still quite expensive too, unfortunately. Otherwise I'd be all over it...

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and don't forget the $1700 firmware upgrade to get the Sandel to work with a WAAS box if it doesnt have the "latest"

 

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gsxrpilot    3,099

I'm in the camp that would spend money on capability rather than redundancy/safety. (Worse case scenario, if everything goes to shit, I can fall back to partial panel skills and my iPad/iPhone running ForeFlight and get on the ground)

So I wouldn't be replacing the AI. Rather I'd look for an HSI on the used market ($1000) And then address the WAAS GPS situation. An HSI/WAAS GPS/Autopilot is the best IFR combo anyway.

I'd go 530W today unless I could get all the way to the IFD540. The IFD440 with IFD100 on iPad still doesn't give you IFR plates. IFD540 does and puts them on the IFD100 as well.

Sell the 430 and the 296. Put your iPad on the yoke instead of the 296.

Better yet... keep the 430 and ditch the old Narco. Put a 530W in the center stack above the 430. Move the stuff below the 430 over to the spot vacated by the Narco.  A 530W/430 stack would be very capable, give you solid primary/secondary nav/coms. Add the HSI and you're done!

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bradp    717

Something else to keep in mind for the true CBs in us Mooney drivers. My IA is willing to do both the G5 install as well as the WAAS antenna changeout during annual with me. Hmmm. A few AMUs less labor...


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bradp    717

So I went ahead and did the first G5 AI.  

With the announcement of the GAD29B I'm going to go with a second G5 as a DG/HSI/GPSS/backup to first G5 (which is an incredible value for less than 3 AMU and 4 hr batteries) when the GAD29B becomes available.   

Now im trying to decide about WAAS and ADS-B options and hopefully schedule something before the rebate program runs completely dry, and to attempt to minimize the number of times the panel needs to be opened up.   

The most straightforward path right now is to purchase a 430W.  I can either sell my 430 or use the 430 and the Garmin CDI as my nav/com #2 and ditch my trusty KX-170B and Ki-209.  I will need a WAAS source if I want to go with an AXP-340, TT31, or Garmin 330ES vs 335.  (I'm voting with my feet on BK with their repair business decisions and won't be going that way).  

I dont think I want to do anything that will necessitate new holes in the fuselage and antenna runs (so I'm ruling out a standalone 335+gps/345+gps/stratus esg).  

A slightly different path is to do the most simple WAAS upgrade - slide in - and install a GTx-345.  I get that some people like integrated solutions- but I'm not quite seeing the value in the 345 over a tt31/app-340/330/335+(GDL-39 or stratus/stratux) except that its nice and clean without a lot of extra stuff lying around and nice if you present date on both the GTN 750 and an iPad.

The only thing that I've got that's pushing me forward with this right now is whether I want to take advantage of the rebate program for the ADS-B... and the plane is in a happy state of maintenance equilibrium for now as I have all my other projects either done or close to being done.  

What's the big difference between these "out" 1090 transponders?  Some seem to be slide ins but others are only "pretend" slide ins as a new rack is required. Some use squat or airspeed switches but others can use GPS derived data (Garmin?).  How much of a labor difference would it be going from a 76a to a TT31 versus a 76a to a 330ES/335?  I know that power ground and the encoding wires would need to be re-crimped with Dsub connectors in an awkward spot behind the panel.  The rack would need to be drilled out and replaced.  All the boxes will need an rs -232 connection to the navigator for tis and/or GPS data.  To me that seems like 2-3 additional hrs of labor but in avionics world it may really be like 6-8 hrs. Then there's the transponder cert and the paperwork for another few hours  For those who have already made their decisions.. how did you decide on which out box and why?

 

Thanks for reading my train of thought.  Hopefully it will help others considering similar piecemeal upgrades. 

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Godfather    235

I'd sell the 430 and buy a 530w or the 650 if you have a cheap avionics shop. This will ensure capability with the G5's going forward. 

Im not sure but I think even with two G5's you can only have one gps or nav source displayed. This would make dual 430's a waste imo. 

Id try to find a used 330es for under 2k or wait until the new 82 unit comes out. 

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Cooperd0g    18

The GTX 345 with WAAS I think is only WAAS for the ADSB and doesn't give you the improved approach capability. Because of that I would stick with making the WAAS upgrade built into your main GPS/Comm navigator unit. Otherwise, I do like the GTX345, but I agree that it isn't any more capable than a 330ES or a KT74 paired with a Stratus/Stratux. 

Because of the G5 and your plan for a second for the autopilot, I would stick with Garmin on the WAAS GPS. I like the IFD, and I'm willing to bet it will legally be able to work with the G5 in the future, but there is no guarantee or predictable timeline. As far as which one? Well, I say go for the cheapest, probably the 430W, and get the Flight Stream 210. It sounds like you use an iPad as well. That is your big moving map and your easy way to run the 430W flight plan and routes. 

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jetdriven    2,269
On 4/25/2017 at 10:28 PM, bradp said:

 

Eventually I'd like to have Audio Panel, Transponder, GPS and Navcom in the center stack (center post not withstanding) and put an Aera 660 or iPad above the copilot yoke. 


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bradp    717

Okay so I have a 430W on the way and am collecting quotes for installation of a GTX 330ES transponder. The first quote back from a very reputable avionics shop in the region quoted ~18 hours of labor (including paperwork and transponder cert).  Of course seems like a lot of labor hrs to me, and includes those additional things, but can you guys give me a ballpark of what's reasonable?  Some of this is related to routing a new RG400 to the belly (not hard) and a new transponder antenna.  

Thanks!

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jetdriven    2,269

That seems kinda high. I had a gtx345r installed along with everything else and it was 8hrs labor additional. But it's not outrageously high. 

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