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Tragic crash not reported for 21 hours-Poll


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ELT monitoring and 121.5 vs 406.  

112 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you monitor 121.5 when you fly?

    • Never
      31
    • Occasionally
      55
    • Always
      26
  2. 2. Are you equipped with a 406 MHz ELT?

    • Yes
      51
    • No
      61


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This happened Easter weekend. Several planes departed the field and no one reported the crash that was visible in plane sight. Multiple aircraft reported hearing the ELT including myself on Saturday evening. Does ATC even investigate these anymore?

http://www.ocala.com/news/20170417/pilots-overlooked-crashed-plane-at-williston-airport

It was reported the pilot was an Atlanta controller. Wife and kids aboard as well. :(

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wow, that's terrible.  It doesn't sound logical, but I can see why it may be missed during takeoff and landing.  Pilots are usually pretty occupied in both scenarios.  I don't routinely monitor 121.5, but I guess I should make a habit of it.  Really a shame.

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If it were audible, I would have picked it up. My second radio is always tuned to 121.5 and ATIS/AWOS on standby. I swap to listen to the weather but in order to stop hearing the weather, I swap back to guard. I've probably reported a good half dozen ELT soundings to ATC that I've picked up. I sure hope they were false alarms and not a real accident, but I feel it's really important to alert ATC whenever possible.

One time there must have been another guy flying with his ELT going off because I couldn't get it to stop ringing for like an hour. So that's the kind of time I shut off the sound from that radio and can't monitor. Or when Delta gets on telling you about the weather at the destination or telling everyone that they're on GUARD!

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I don't monitor guard but perhaps I should. I've been asked to tune it in a few times by ATC to confirm if I'm hearing the same thing but I don't normally monitor it. It's unfortunate that this happened. I'd be interested in seeing the preliminary report from the NTSB.

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Horrible to hear, particularly in case a quicker response might have helped someone.  It sounds like it was a busy day at the field, so it's odd that no one noticed anything at that time and crash location.  I can't imagine any of us becoming aware of a downed aircraft and simply ignoring it.  I always have my 2nd radio monitoring 121.5 unless listening to AWOS/ ATIS or when impertinent chatter on that frequency becomes a distraction. Usually it's just quiet. I have had a message relayed to me on 121.5 when the controller forgot to hand me off and I went out of range, so I've been pretty consistent about monitoring since that time.  

I've heard a legit ELT go off once in my brief time as a pilot - then heard multiple commercial flights report it to NY Approach before I could open my mouth.  Turned out to be a warbird pilot who went down in the Hudson last year and perished.  

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Just now, 201er said:

If it were audible, I would have picked it up. My second radio is always tuned to 121.5 and ATIS/AWOS on standby. I swap to listen to the weather but in order to stop hearing the weather, I swap back to guard. I've probably reported a good half dozen ELT soundings to ATC that I've picked up. I sure hope they were false alarms and not a real accident, but I feel it's really important to alert ATC whenever possible.

I do the same with the #2 radio. I've reported at least 5 events and ATC usually asks other aircraft in the vicinity to check guard to try to get a bearing. Apparently there is no more sending CAP flights to investigate these though. 

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I always monitor 121.5. Comes from where I work as a pilot, it's company policy and habit now.

Do you folks realize that 121.5 ELT's are worthless now for the most part? You know what system or agency monitors for them now? None!!!! Your only chance is if an airliner gets close enough to you to pick it up and the crew bothers to report it. That's pretty much it. Literally, the airline crews are all that is left for monitoring for the 121.5 types, and I can tell you a lot of us hear so many of them that they can go unreported. When you fly several legs a day and hear ELT's here and there it gets old reporting the things when 99.9% of them are false alerts. And when they are reported the 121.5 types are hard to locate and identify.  So please get a 406MHZ (I did), the life you save may be your own. 

For those not familiar the 406MHZ type, it sends a unique registration number and your last GPS position (if you pay for that option). So it literally takes the search out of search and rescue. They know who you are and where you are. 

And you ought to be  monitoring 121.5 on your #2 comm when possible, it's just good airmanship. I have heard many little VFR airplanes being called out for entering airspace they shouldn't be in on 121.5 by the controlling agency, yet they continue right on course into said airspace. If folks would monitor 121.5 it would save a lot of grief and legal expenses.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mooney_Mike
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11 minutes ago, Mooney_Mike said:

Your only chance is if an airliner gets close enough to you to pick it up and the crew bothers to report it. That's pretty much it. Literally, the airline crews are all that is left for monitoring for the 121.5 types, and I can tell you a lot of us hear so many of them that they go unreported.

I find this to be disappointing and shameful.

Nonetheless, I have the sense to pack a 406 and a portable. If anyone's seen CAP in action, you'd realize how dumb it is to rely on 121.5 anyway. Doesn't excuse going against the AIM or good conscious though.

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It is easier to receive a 121.5 MHz signal at 30nm than a 406 MHz at 10,000 miles. If all the airborne planes listen to 121.5 MHz the chances of a prompt rescue would increase dramatically. This could be accomplished by a scanning feature on the COMs that listen to 121.5 MHz on the background without affecting COM normal operation. I have a third COM (Icom 706) that stay tuned and squelch in the event of an ELT or MAYDAY call.

José 

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8 hours ago, Mooney_Mike said:

Literally, the airline crews are all that is left for monitoring for the 121.5 types, and I can tell you a lot of us hear so many of them that they can go unreported.

And every military plane that is capable.

 

10 hours ago, 201er said:

My second radio is always tuned to 121.5 and ATIS/AWOS on standby. I swap to listen to the weather but in order to stop hearing the weather, I swap back to guard.

This is how I set my second comm as well.

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Lots of humour about the airline guys making PA's snd ramp calls on guard, but at least it indicates they are tuning and monitoring the frequency.

Reports of ELTs from aircraft in the flight levels are not so helpful, but if you're  below 5000' and hear one, the report is probably very helpful in locating the source.

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8 hours ago, Piloto said:

It is easier to receive a 121.5 MHz signal at 30nm than a 406 MHz at 10,000 miles. If all the airborne planes listen to 121.5 MHz the chances of a prompt rescue would increase dramatically. This could be accomplished by a scanning feature on the COMs that listen to 121.5 MHz on the background without affecting COM normal operation. I have a third COM (Icom 706) that stay tuned and squelch in the event of an ELT or MAYDAY call.

José 

Or you could get a 406MHZ ELT with near instant worldwide reporting with a 100 yard position accuracy.

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32 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Lots of humour about the airline guys making PA's snd ramp calls on guard, but at least it indicates they are tuning and monitoring the frequency.

Reports of ELTs from aircraft in the flight levels are not so helpful, but if you're  below 5000' and hear one, the report is probably very helpful in locating the source.

We have the "guard police", no worries!

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I hear ELT soundings several times on the ground, but figured it is someone testing their box...    I used to monitor guard all the time, but everytime I travel, particularly over and around Ohio, someone is playing around making silly sounds and playing the bird is the word over guard.   Sometimes I tell them that no one will help them if they really need help.  Other times I just turn volume all the way down.   

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39 minutes ago, Browncbr1 said:

I hear ELT soundings several times on the ground, but figured it is someone testing their box...    I used to monitor guard all the time, but everytime I travel, particularly over and around Ohio, someone is playing around making silly sounds and playing the bird is the word over guard.   Sometimes I tell them that no one will help them if they really need help.  Other times I just turn volume all the way down.   

Seriously! What's up with people screwing around on the guard frequency in sparsely populated parts of the South and Midwest? It's obnoxious. I rarely if ever encounter this during my more typical flying in the Northeast.

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20 minutes ago, DXB said:

Seriously! What's up with people screwing around on the guard frequency in sparsely populated parts of the South and Midwest?  I rarely if ever encounter this during my usual flying in the Northeast.

Believe me...it is widespread.  Sadly, the worst abusers seem to be the so-called professionals, but that might just be because they're  in the air the most.

I (really!) hate to say this, but it aint the old guys who abuse 121.5.

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Since I have 121.5 tuned in on the 2nd radio all the time, I really hate it when I miss a handoff or get a blast of idiocy while landing from the clowns on gaurd. Sometimes they'll go back and forth for minutes telling each other they're on guard. It is really quite disgraceful. Someone could be having a real emergency during this.

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Since I went NORDO two years ago I always monitor On Guard. The audio that the investigator sent me showed that they did try to reach me.

But what amazes me most about On Guard is just how frequently it's used. This past weekend my wife and I flew to New Orleans and I heard no less than five call outs during one three hour leg alone.

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Well when I tune my com 2 to 121.5 and monitor it opens the squelch and I hear a lot of background noise.  So when flying I have it tuned int and occasionally swap to it and listen for a minute and if I hear nothing I turn it off.  Occasionally I have been asked by ATC to check 121.5 and let them know if I hear anything.  On very rare occasions I have heard an ELT.  I reported when and  how well I  heard, it and when it faded away to ATC.

Once many years ago around 1993 I was flying a 150 at about 1500 feet and heard an ELT bleeding over to my regular com frequency.:huh:  At first I thought I was imagining it.  I tuned in 121.5 and it was very strong.  I circled a tugboat below me and determined it was most likely the tug.  Ir radioed ATC and let them know what was going on. Coincidentally I was returning from a CAP search and rescue (SAR) exercise.

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