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New, Considering Older Mooney - Anyone near west Kentucky?


hacair

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This looks like a great forum, so i decided to join in!  I'm flying regularly again (172 in a local flying club), after taking time off for a few years (not medical, just life with three daughters, youngest is now 19 and with one more semester to finish a PTA degree).  I am commercial and instrument rated and looking for a bit more than a 172 can offer.  I've been considering ownership and I want something that is enjoyable to fly and will actually do some reasonable cross country speed.  Normally will be packing four and a little luggage, me, my wif and two adult daughters.  Will push the useful load limit in most singles with full fuel, but not willing to go to a twin and need to stay at $50k or less for a decent IFR equipped plane.  M20F seems to be a good candidate, possibly a C, but I have yet to sit in or fly either.  

Thoughts?  And is anyone in or near west Kentucky that would be willing to let me sit in or ride along around the patch to get an idea of the fit and ride?

Thanks for the feedback!

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My C has almost 1000 lb. useful load, including 300 lb fuel  (good for 5:30 flight time, ~800 statute miles not counting wind. Ful, fuel requires four small people and minimum luggage; a short body (A-E) requires not just light weight but also small people for the back seat. Traveling with my wife, I typically run out of cube before running out of weight.

Four FAA people:  4 x 170 = 680 lbs. Full fuel is 300 lbs. That's 980 lb. No baggage, no tools, empty hatrack, etc. When I've carried 4 adults, the ones in the back were ready to get out in just a couple of hours, and I was limited to 34 gals fuel with three husky guys. That's almost 4 hours flight time, but we only went two because my plane is a Mooney, not a Cessna.

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There is a picture of Bob and three other people in his M20E, a short body.

My C was good for taking Three full sized people to SnF.  My buddy sat sideways in the back.

My C172 experience was limited to the lower hp engine.  Less power to haul a full load of people with.

Best regards,

-a-

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Welcome to the forum. Thanks for joining.

As you already know, your mission will be pushing most four place certified singles with any speed to them. If you are always going to be 2+2, then the F model would be your Mooney choice in my opinion.

As with all Mooney owners, they always seem to want to fly with four, but hardly ever do. That being said, there are some F's out there with nice UL's that you could make four work.

I'm sure there will be someone chiming in soon to get you set up with a ride.

Have fun in here.

DF


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8 hours ago, hacair said:

Thanks, Hank.  How would you (or anyone else) say the back seats of a short body Mooney compare to a C172?  Less space/leg room or about the same?  

Definitely less legroom. When parked and empty, my front seats touch the back seats. They slide forward about 6" and lock in, then there are 3 additional locking locations, each a couple of inches apart. F, J and K models (the mid bodies) start with 6" additional back seat legroom. If you plan to carry 4 people regularly, go with one of them.

If you plan to carry 4 people and baggage regularly, check the following things:

  • Useful load
  • Size & weight of your expected passengers
  • CG of the plane with said passengers 
  • Remaining useful load for fuel
  • How long will the plane cruise with that fuel load (remember the Golden Hour!)
  • What distance will that fuel get you with 10- and 20-knot headwinds

Do enjoy your shopping! A Mooney will take you farther for your fuel load than any other certified 4-place plane, and do it faster, too. Many of them will carry a large pile of "stuff" with you. But like all small planes, ours are challenged when trying to go places with someone in every seat. Some other planes are beyond gross with only the 4 people and no fuel . . . . And Mooney's CG doesn't move out of the approved range as the fuel is burned. 

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Welcome hacair!

Unless your whole family consists of dimensionally small people I dont think you will be happy with a C or E.

It will be difficult to get a nice F in your budget with low time engine/ prop and a nice panel.  Will you REALLY be hauling four very much?

If I were near by I would be happy to give you a ride.

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Hi MBDiagMan,

Of course, I'll want to keep up my currency (practice approaches, take-off & landings and such), but I suspect a fair amount of flying will be with 3 - 4, at least for a while.  We still have two daughters living at home, and they like to go with us.  We've made a couple of trips in the local flying club's 172N (160 HP) - it has an Air Plains STC with 30 deg. flap limit which gives it an extra 100 lbs useful load.  With that said, we were at gross when we filled up with fuel and had to pack very lightly for just an overnight getaway.  In an F with a 1000 lb. UL, we could do a little more a lot faster.  I owned a 172C many years ago, and got my first taste of what the fixed costs and maintenance costs can be.  I sold it a year after buying it to make a down payment on my first home...  That said, I'm not in a huge hurry, and I want to do my research to know what fits our needs so when I find the right plane at the right price, I can jump on it!

Thanks for the feedback!  Keep it coming.

Regards.

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I have a C model.  Although only the coolest pilots on the planet own C models, I'd recommend an F model for four people on a routine basis.  My back seats are pretty tight except for kids.  Finding a $50k F model should be possible, but it probably won't have all the latest and greatest, but every vintage plane is usually a compromise of some sort.

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It all depends on mission and the size of the people.  I have owned a C and an F.  For four including teens and adults I would not get anything less than a G or F.  The C is a good 3 person aircraft but is very tight with 4.

The F will handle four if they are fairly small or the mission is short enough.  I can fly full fuel and four of us but we are not large people (180, 140, 120 and 110 pounds) or three of us and the dog (Golden Pyrenees at 100 pounds).   I have flown two couples with reduced fuel (under 40 gallons) for missions of 3.0 hours or less or planning for fuel stops.  You will have to train your family to pack light.  Many things don't need to be carried with you and you can wash cloths rather than bringing six sets with you. 

At first my daughter and wife complained about packing light but when the plane was not available for a trip and we had to drive they both gained a great appreciation for the Mooney and will hardly drive anymore. 

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58 minutes ago, TTaylor said:

It all depends on mission and the size of the people.  I have owned a C and an F.  For four including teens and adults I would not get anything less than a G or F.  The C is a good 3 person aircraft but is very tight with 4.

The F will handle four if they are fairly small or the mission is short enough.  I can fly full fuel and four of us but we are not large people (180, 140, 120 and 110 pounds) or three of us and the dog (Golden Pyrenees at 100 pounds).   I have flown two couples with reduced fuel (under 40 gallons) for missions of 3.0 hours or less or planning for fuel stops.  You will have to train your family to pack light.  Many things don't need to be carried with you and you can wash cloths rather than bringing six sets with you. 

At first my daughter and wife complained about packing light but when the plane was not available for a trip and we had to drive they both gained a great appreciation for the Mooney and will hardly drive anymore. 

T, your link to your gallery isn't working. 

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Welome Sir.  You might have a hard time finding an F within your 50K budget especially one that is "well equiped" the most important factor with short body is How tall are the front seat occupants and what is your inseam. if both are short you will have a fair amount of leg room in back. I have a useful load of 1035 if you are tall but the wife is short you might be OK in a short body

The real bottom line is if you want a nice 4 seat cerified that can go over 150mph for under 40k there is only ONE airplane a Mooney M20C for under 50k an M20C or E Mooney's are real cool fun to fly airplanes we can go 600 miles with an hour reserve pretty amazing from a little 180hp 4 banger

Good luck

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15 minutes ago, bonal said:

... the most important factor with short body is How tall are the front seat occupants and what is your inseam. if both are short you will have a fair amount of leg room in back. I have a useful load of 1035 if you are tall but the wife is short you might be OK in a short body

I'm 5'9" on a good day; my wife is 5'6".  One of my daughters that will fly with us is the same height as me and the other is about the same height as my wife.  With 1035 useful load, we could do fine, I believe.  I think an E would be cool, but are there many/any E's with a UL at or above 1000 lb?  

I still have yet to lay hands on any Mooney; I found a guy that used to instruct in his M20F that wasn't too far away, but he sold it!  He did say it may be back (I guess for annual or something) toward the end of this month and to give him a call.  Any suggestions / offers in about 100 mile radius of M34 where I might get introduced to one? :) - 

Regards.

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I have family that live in Paris, TN and I fly to KPHT pretty often. Looks like M34 is just a short trip up the KY river. I have a E you are welcome to check-out. Maybe grab a bite at Pattiis. I've never been there, but hear good things. Other option is to meet me at Henry County KPHT.

PM me a phone or contact and I'll give you a call Mon or Tues and touch base about meeting up..

 

-Tom

KDYR   Dyersburg, TN

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Based on your budget and mission, I would look for an original shotgun panel F with a jbar..  (They typically have more useful load ~1040lbs and can be had within your budget if you are patient.). Just focus on getting one with no corrosion. Panel gizmos are getting cheaper and more options continue to hit the market.   You can add those things later to make it better, but the ole shot gun panel is legal too in the mean time.  The backseat is comfy even with front seats in their aft position.   I sat in the back seat of an E before buying mine and it didn't take long to determine it wouldn't be comfy for adults on longer flights.  Some will argue, but that is my opinion.  The F also has more luggage volume capacity, which I have found to fill up before station weight is exceeded.

There have been MANY times for me when the extra 50-100lbs useful makes a trip doable non-stop without having to worry about fuel.  

 

Good luck!

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I have an F and I am not too far away either. Maybe Tom and I could meet you the same day! The weather looks a bit iffy the beginning of the week. Shoot me a PM as well. I have been to M34 before and would like to go to Patti's as well.

 

Sean

KFYE

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Just now, Bayern Speed said:

I have an F and I am not too far away either. Maybe Tom and I could meet you the same day! The weather looks a bit iffy the beginning of the week. Shoot me a PM as well. I have been to M34 before and would like to go to Patti's as well.

 

Sean

KFYE

I'm interested as well.  I have a 65C, and haven't been to Patti's in a decade.  Depending on the date, we may be able to line up an E, F and C at M34.  

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That would be awesome! A little Mooney airshow at M34. 

Just now, neilpilot said:

I'm interested as well.  I have a 65C, and haven't been to Patti's in a decade.  Depending on the date, we may be able to line up an E, F and C at M34.  

 

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On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 0:20 AM, carusoam said:

There is a picture of Bob and three other people in his M20E, a short body.-

My '66E, short body, has gained weight due to various mods over the years and the useful load is 900#. As others have mentioned, the height of the pilot is probably the main factor determining how comfortable the rear seat s are since the front seat rails accommodate pilots from 5'2" to 6'8" or more. This was a 3 hour plus each way trip with full fuel and a littler luggage for one night. Passenger were comfortable. We were probably right at gross at takeoff <wink> (I ain't real smart but I know enough not to ask ladies how much they weigh.)

IMG_20151030_115458221.jpg

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