United Incident

[Yetti]

It looks like UA was only offering ($800.00) the calculated amount per the rules.   Had they sweetened the pot they could have avoided what now is going to be at least a million dollars worth of crap.   Penny wise Pound foolish. What I bet is the Gate agent picked an Asian name on the isle figuring they would go quietly.

[gsengle]

Ok here we go with the pitchforks, make it about racism with no evidence. Sigh.


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[Tommy]

20 minutes ago, gsengle said:

 

Every airline does it. Here is some perspective.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2017/03/20/hold-onto-seat-us-airlines-bump-fewest-passengers-two-decades


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Again, Greg. I can ensure you though every airline does, some are definitely more equitable and amendable. The difference is that while airlines such as Singapore, Emirates, Cathay, Qantas, Ethihad exercise the conditions rarely and only to protect itself from legal disaster, UAL / Delta (ab)use it to line its pocket. 

Oh, want to play a game? Its' called "let's guess which 5 airlines are ranked in the top 10 best airlines 5 years in a row?"

So question to you, why can US airlines get away with murder? 

 

[gsengle]

Again, Greg. I can ensure you though every airline does, some are definitely more equitable and amendable. The difference is that while airlines such as Singapore, Emirates, Cathay, Qantas, Ethihad exercise the conditions rarely and only to protect itself from legal disaster, UAL / Delta (ab)use it to line its pocket. 
Oh, want to play a game? Its' called "let's guess which 5 airlines are ranked in the top 10 best airlines 5 years in a row?"
So question to you, why can US airlines get away with murder? 
 

Ok dig up the stats, this is all required reporting, and show us.

If the bumped him for garden variety commuting employees they should have a pr nightmare for sure. But show me the stats to back up your feelings.


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[Yetti]

[Guest]

Top 100 airlines, 2016

http://www.worldairlineawards.com/awards/world_airline_rating.html

Clarence

[Tommy]

4 hours ago, thinwing said:

Not at  all...law enforcement just doesn't punch somebody in the face...in all of our 50 states that would be an anomaly...I'm not saying police brutality doesn't occur..but cops know better than this!If he was being arrested and was non compliant it is highly unlikely that an officer would physically beat him as has been suggusted by yourself and posters on social media!If he was abused while resisting removal I do not believe an officer would risk his career by punching him in the face!My question,is what happened after he was dragged off plane.Did he go ballistic and was tazered,which is standard operating procedure if resisting arrest.Tounge biting can than can occur which would explain the blood from the mouth.Also..who let him back on the plane for the second video?Something is not adding up here regardless of your opinion of the airlines removal policy.

Okay, so on the video, this guy was forcefully grabbed and knocked unconscious then dragged across the aisle with blood in his mouth.What if I tell you he appears to be very much concussed - which explains the bizarre behavior in the second video when he somehow re-board the flight - or worse still, he could well have a traumatic intra-cranial bleed.  So this is not a beat up?? I can tell you the knock he sustained is infinitely worse than facial bruises (ie. your definition of a beat up which is honestly laughable by medical standard. Can you imagine your ED doctor say to you that you haven't been beaten up because you don't have facial bruising, which, mind you, will take at least 6 to 8 hours to be visible). 

[Yetti]

10 minutes ago, gsengle said:

Ok here we go with the pitchforks, make it about racism with no evidence. Sigh.


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Kind of not really.   I redid the outsource agreement for Continental computer systems. United took most of Continental's programs in the merger. Never heard of a program to randomly pick bumped passengers.  But I can go check the RFP.   Airlines are not that sophisticated   They are buying Mainframe parts off ebay.   It's the gate agent's role to work the passenger manifest.  Someone at the last minute told the gate agent to get the crew on board....

[Tommy]

10 minutes ago, gsengle said:

 

Ok dig up the stats, this is all required reporting, and show us.

If the bumped him for garden variety commuting employees they should have a pr nightmare for sure. But show me the stats to back up your feelings.


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You claimed EVERY other airlines do the same. The burden of proof is on you, bud. 

[tigers2007]

Clearly a coup contrecoup injury. I give him 24-hours before he goes into a coma. I hope he has good insurance.

[gsengle]

You claimed EVERY other airlines do the same. The burden of proof is on you, bud. 

Yes every us airline overbooks. This is a fact. I posted an Article on it. Then out of nowhere you claim some airlines are way better than others with regard to this practice. So show us. We dig into your claims for you and we find they aren't true. Now I'm just going to assume they aren't true without any backup.


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[Tommy]

3 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Top 100 airlines, 2016

http://www.worldairlineawards.com/awards/world_airline_rating.html

Clarence

Thanks Clarence.

Hey Paul / Greg!

Delta 35th. FYI Malaysian Airline ranked 34th.

United 68th. FYI  Sri Lakan Airline ranked 67th.

American Airline 77th. FYI Ethiopian Airline ranked 76th

 

[gsengle]

Kind of not really.   I redid the outsource agreement for Continental computer systems. United took most of Continental's programs in the merger. Never heard of a program to randomly pick bumped passengers.  But I can go check the RFP.   Airlines are not that sophisticated   They are buying Mainframe parts off ebay.   It's the gate agent's role to work the passenger manifest.  Someone at the last minute told the gate agent to get the crew on board....

I would think they'd have an airline priority number / fare code list and start at the bottom. Simple.


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[Tommy]

7 minutes ago, gsengle said:

 

Yes every us airline overbooks. This is a fact. I posted an Article on it. Then out of nowhere you claim some airlines are way better than others with regard to this practice. So show us. We dig into your claims for you and we find they aren't true. Now I'm just going to assume they aren't true without any backup.


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Where is your proof?

One article that has the link broken doesn't count as a proof.

You claimed all airlines deliberately and systematically overbook passengers like UAL / Delta!

That's a big claim. Prove it. 

Oh wait! "Yes every us airline overbooks. This is a fact. I posted an Article on it." What? Now you are only talking about US airlines? I thought we are talking about every airline in the world? Shifting the post much? 

 

[tigers2007]

Oman Air should be 24th and not 42nd. I've flown them a lot and I've always been treated like a king. One of the best parts with the foreign airlines is how they close the opaque curtain so we don't have to look back at the steerage (and also guard the path from those trying to run to the door for deplaning). Etihad should be much farther down the list. Garuda Indonesia is also a great airline in regards to customer service and delivery. Clearly the U.S. domestics are lacking. This list is accurate. GXSR what do you think?

[Yetti]

1 minute ago, gsengle said:

 

I would think they'd have an airline priority number / fare code list and start at the bottom. Simple.

 

Steerage class person traveling alone, aisle seat so you don't have to move people around.  If it was the gate agent asking to get off, then it would not be interfering with a flight crew.  The LEO should have done more due diligence.  Told the airline to fix their own mess. 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Yetti

[Yetti]

[Yetti]

This whole thing could have been fixed if Kendell Jenner could have handed the passenger a Pepsi

[gsengle]

Not a single zero in column 3, and looks like southwest was bad one from quick reading. This is q4 2016 and the webpage.

https://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/subject_areas/airline_information/passengers_denied_confirmed_space_report/2016/html/2016_4q.html

https://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/subject_areas/airline_information/passengers_denied_confirmed_space_report/2016/index.html


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[FloridaMan]

Admittedly, I didn't read this entire thread. This incident was expensive for United because of the bad publicity, but ultimately, I believe it will be good for the industry that this was filmed as I'd bet, right or wrong, they'll think of a better way to address this in the future. If I had been on that flight and seen the level of stress that passenger had over not being able to stay aboard, I would've offered to leave in his place unless I had an absolutely critical reason to get somewhere (and, if you catch me on an airline, you can nearly guarantee that I'm on it because I've got to be somewhere). 

The thing that gets me is that the passenger clearly had some pressing reason to get where he was going and nobody offered the courtesy that you would expect. Supply/demand and all of that. If you're going to overbook a flight and if these incidents are indeed so rare, work it into the budget to pay whatever it takes to make the people you bump happy to fly with you. In my early 20s, I was excited to get a free hotel and a travel voucher and would be the first to volunteer. 

[Tommy]

9 minutes ago, gsengle said:

 

Yes every us airline overbooks. This is a fact. I posted an Article on it. Then out of nowhere you claim some airlines are way better than others with regard to this practice. So show us. We dig into your claims for you and we find they aren't true. Now I'm just going to assume they aren't true without any backup.


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Oh wait! "Yes every us airline overbooks. This is a fact. I posted an Article on it." What? Now you are only talking about US airlines? I thought we are talking about every airline in the world? Shifting the post much? 

[gsengle]

Ok you're just difficult and unpleasant to talk to. I tried to contribute to a fact finding and interesting conversation. I don't have an axe to grind. But have fun.


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[flyboy0681]

The official statement by United's CEO doesn't help either.

Whatever happened to common sense in this country? You know, the time when police tried to deescalate a situation instead of escalating it, and when the customer was always right.

Either I live too much in the past or live in a dream world.

[FloridaMan]

Also, regarding that top 100 list and "Qantas never overbooking," et cetera. 

You know what those airlines that don't overbook do when they have several flights a day and they don't get enough passengers? They cancel flights until they have enough to fill up a plane. I spent a full 14 hours sitting in an airport in the Philippines and had to get a hotel (on my own dime) at the destination and a rebooked flight to leave the next morning as I missed the connection. I lost a full 24 hours on my vacation over there because the airlines underbooked the first two flights of the day and cascaded them into the last flight of the day, which arrived very late. 

[Tommy]

8 minutes ago, gsengle said:

Ok you're just difficult and unpleasant to talk to. I tried to contribute to a fact finding and interesting conversation. I don't have an axe to grind. But have fun.


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So all of the sudden I am being "difficult" and "unpleasant" to talk to after I asked you to present evidence to your extraordinary claim?

Ad hominem... 

If anything, our conversation reminds me of Carl Sagan's sage quote "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"