United Incident

[Yetti]

1 minute ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Whenever you buy a ticket, somewhere you check a box that says that you agree to this:

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx

It says that any law enforcement officer can remove you for any reason.

So this guy already agreed to be removed from the plane by a security officer.

And now United has a least a Million dollar debacle to deal with.

 

3 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Whenever you buy a ticket, somewhere you check a box that says that you agree to this:

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx

It says that any law enforcement officer can remove you for any reason.

So this guy already agreed to be removed from the plane by a security officer.

Only if you violate rule 21 which let's guess this passenger did not.

 

[Yetti]

And a scheduling F up is not Force Majeure....  Force Majeure is outside of the control of United.  This is very much in control of United.

[thinwing]

8 minutes ago, Tommy said:

You gotta be kidding me..... 

Not at  all...law enforcement just doesn't punch somebody in the face...in all of our 50 states that would be an anomaly...I'm not saying police brutality doesn't occur..but cops know better than this!If he was being arrested and was non compliant it is highly unlikely that an officer would physically beat him as has been suggusted by yourself and posters on social media!If he was abused while resisting removal I do not believe an officer would risk his career by punching him in the face!My question,is what happened after he was dragged off plane.Did he go ballistic and was tazered,which is standard operating procedure if resisting arrest.Tounge biting can than can occur which would explain the blood from the mouth.Also..who let him back on the plane for the second video?Something is not adding up here regardless of your opinion of the airlines removal policy.

[Tom]

I suspect that this will play out, like so many things in history, where a single person said "no" for the right reason (if if technically inappropriate) and millions will benefit from it. 

Meanwhile so many others, including people who will directly benefit from his actions, will be critical of him...

[N201MKTurbo]

12 minutes ago, Yetti said:

And now United has a least a Million dollar debacle to deal with.

 

Only if you violate rule 21 which let's guess this passenger did not.

 

Rule 21 paragraph B.

It looks like United is in the right legally.

They are stupid as hell....

[Andy95W]

41 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Because it's consequential. He wouldn't be needing to resist law enforcement if not for United abhorrent ways of treating its customers. Cause and Effect. 

And FYI, not just me having a hard time to understand this, Andy, hundreds of thousands of others also very perplexed - just go to United / Time Facebook pages and see for yourself...

And how do you know EVERYONE else would follow the rules and only he wouldn't? Did you ask everyone on the plane? 

Yes, I agree, but those are 2 separate issues.  I am also disgusted by the poor treatment of passengers, at times, on US airlines (I am an airline employee myself.)

But you posted the photo of the "good doctor" and you asked the question of what he had done to deserve his treatment.  That invoked issue #2, his non compliance with law enforcement officers.

[Browncbr1]

dumb as hell.  why didn't they just stick to a boarding window time and tell the person who was late to board had closed?... I've gotten that before.. it sucked, but at least I wasn't knocked out and dragged around...   that totally sucks..   If I were the person taking that seat, I would have raised hell until that poor guy was back on the plane and I had my bump money in pocket.   United blows 

[Mooneymite]

When they bump me, I'm happy.....!  There's nothing better than checking in at the airport and getting a "Seat Request" boarding card instead of one that assigns a specific seat.  This is the first step to DBC!  I've made lots of money on this deal, but you have to be careful and follow the rules to the letter.  The airline knows the rules very well and will try to get you to take airline miles instead of cash....if you agree to this, you have just put yourself into the category of "volunteer".  Don't do it.  Go for the brass ring.  

Simply say:  "I want my DBC"........Repeat as necessary.

Amount of Denied Boarding Compensation

Domestic Transportation

Passengers traveling between points within the United States (including the territories and possessions) who are denied boarding involuntarily from an oversold flight are entitled to: (1) No compensation if the carrier offers alternate transportation that is planned to arrive at the passenger's destination or first stopover not later than one hour after the planned arrival time of the passenger's original flight; (2) 200% of the fare to the passenger's destination or first stopover, with a maximum of $675, if the carrier offers alternate transportation that is planned to arrive at the passenger's destination or first stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the passenger's original flight; and (3) 400% of the fare to the passenger's destination or first stop over, with a maximum of $1,350, if the carrier does not offer alternate transportation that is planned to arrive at the airport of the passenger's destination or first stopover less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the passenger's original flight.

[Skates97]

23 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Rule 21 paragraph B.

It looks like United is in the right legally.

They are stupid as hell....

Agree, just because you can do something legally doesn't mean that you should...

I can't count the number of times I've wanted to tell a customer to "pound sand" but refrained and gave them what they want. Sometimes the fall out is worse than the giving in from the company side of it.

[Yetti]

34 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Rule 21 paragraph B.

It looks like United is in the right legally.

They are stupid as hell....

Nope. What request from the United States Government /DHS/CBP is United responding to?

[N201MKTurbo]

20 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Nope. What request from the United States Government /DHS/CBP is United responding to?

United asked a police officer to remove the individual. When the police officer asked him to deplane, that was a government request to the passenger.

You have to respect police authority or our society will go into chaos. The courts are there to resolve these disputes in an orderly manor.

This is especially important in an aircraft. If people disrespected authority it could endanger everybody on board.

What would happen if a riot started on the plane, even on the ground, it would be very dangerous to everyone on board.

[gsengle]

Non-refundable fare.  I pay for the seat whether I show up or not.
There is so much to not like about commercial airline travel that it's hard to pick a quick bit to quibble with, but to be short: the airlines are riding on the backs of the taxpayers (federal airways, ATC, airport facilities, etc., e.g. expensive and extensive infrastructure), yet the level of service has consistently declined (comfort, professionalism, customer service) while the prices are continually padded (fuel surcharges?  baggage?).
Federal law is on their side, and it is our mistake for letting it happen.  An example of why deregulation is not the magic bullet, especially where public resources or health/safety are at stake.

So you're advocating increasing fuels taxes until it fully funds the FAA, airports, etc?


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[gsengle]

The airlines burn plenty!!


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[Andy95W]

Actually, the airlines don't pay a fuel tax like we do.  They pay a tax per passenger.  If an airliner isn't hauling any paying passengers, our Mooneys pay more into the Aviation Trust Fund than that airliner.

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

United asked a police officer to remove the individual. When the police officer asked him to deplane, that was a government request to the passenger.

You have to respect police authority or our society will go into chaos. The courts are there to resolve these disputes in an orderly manor.

This is especially important in an aircraft. If people disrespected authority it could endanger everybody on board.

What would happen if a riot started on the plane, even on the ground, it would be very dangerous to everyone on board.

It's looking like a security guard with out police powers

[Guest]

7 hours ago, flyboy0681 said:

Using strong-arm tactics by police is not the answer. Everyone has their price and United should have upped the ante until someone shouted out BINGO and danced off the plane.

I yearn for the days when America was a kinder, gentler nation.

Eventually they would get to the price of a charter for their crew relocate and have avoided the whole situation and bad press.

Un believable in my opinion.

Clarence

[tigers2007]

I hope that Dr. Bloodyface uses a mouth guard next time. Looks like he ate the floor and his lip was caught up. I'm still shocked how the airlines don't use charter jets to move crews around in an emergency. Have SkyWest jockey around the crews in a CRJ200 like a milk truck. Do a hot unload and buzz off to the next airport. According to this (dated) chart, the airlines aren't quite making a fortune per flight but I think it slightly skews the principal - the airlines need to have successful and on-time flights in order to exist.

[JoshMan]

I have flown commercially twice in the past two years.  One of them being to my wedding and the other to my grandather's funeral.  If you think he acted out of control I'd be scared to see what guys would have to say about my youtube video

[Yetti]

If I was Dr. Bloody face I would be at the FAA working to have Unted's 121 certificate pulled. The only way to buy me off at this point would be Global elite status and 52 club passes a year for the next 10 years.

United's PR team is stupid.  They should be saying we screwed up and we are working to fix it.  Not we are "reaccomodating" the passenger.

[gsengle]

But isn't that the problem that us Ga pilots talk about all the time, too much litigation and blood sucking lawyers making aviation too expensive? What if the passenger had just complied with lawful police instructions?

 

Don't get me me wrong United has a PR nightmare on its hands, but no one is going to shut down the airline over doing what they had the legal right to do. When does any of this fall on the passenger for resisting the police?

 

 

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[Yetti]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

United asked a police officer to remove the individual. When the police officer asked him to deplane, that was a government request to the passenger.

You have to respect police authority or our society will go into chaos. The courts are there to resolve these disputes in an orderly manor.

This is especially important in an aircraft. If people disrespected authority it could endanger everybody on board.

What would happen if a riot started on the plane, even on the ground, it would be very dangerous to everyone on board.

Edit found where it was a Chicago Police officer.     The same rules that you want to have an orderly society have to be followed by all parties otherwise the thing you fear is justified.  United blaming the cops is stupid.

Don't get me wrong. If someone starts acting up on a flight.  I will ask the flight crew if they need help. Then the bad actor will be hog tied in the asile for the duration of the flight with instructions to the captain to continue to the destination.  No drunk passenger is going to make me spend more time on the mailing tube or divert to Iowa.  I don't like the experience  at all.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Yetti

[Yetti]

6 minutes ago, gsengle said:

Don't get me me wrong United has a PR nightmare on its hands, but no one is going to shut down the airline over doing what they had the legal right to do. When does any of this fall on the passenger for resisting the police?

 

No one has found in the Contract in Carriage where United has the right to do this. Keep reading.  

[gsengle]

No one has found in the Contract in Carriage where United has the right to do this. Keep reading.  

Every airline does it. Here is some perspective.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2017/03/20/hold-onto-seat-us-airlines-bump-fewest-passengers-two-decades


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[Yetti]

Can't read that one....   interesting enough there is a bumping "prevent from boarding" have not seen the "once you are boarded" terms

[Tommy]

3 hours ago, Andy95W said:

Yes, I agree, but those are 2 separate issues.  I am also disgusted by the poor treatment of passengers, at times, on US airlines (I am an airline employee myself.)

But you posted the photo of the "good doctor" and you asked the question of what he had done to deserve his treatment.  That invoked issue #2, his non compliance with law enforcement officers.

Glad you brought up the second issue. 

Tell me if there isn't something morally if not tad bit legally objectionable about this conversation:

Law enforcement: "What's the issue Ma'am"

United FA: "we want you to remove a passenger."

Law enforcement: "Okay. What did he do?"

United FA: "we overbooked this flight and 4 of us need to get to Louisville. He is refusing to give up his seats so we want him removed."

Law enforcement: "Okay. Let me ask again what has he done that is illegal, or endangering the flight or being disruptive or all of the above?"

United FA: "Look Officer. We overbooked this flight and 4 of us need to get to Louisville. He is refusing to give up his seats so we want him removed. Just get rid of him"

Law enforcement: "Okay Ma'am. Though I am a public employee. I am happy to do the corporation's bidding with or without a just cause"

You might as well throw in Imperial March music in the background....

And just why do you think this guy is almost certainly going to win a multi-million law suit again UAL and the police? 

And did you see the police's face (the one that's talking on the radio). He knew he is definitely in the shit creek without a paddle...