201er Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 Lots of talk about the need for more useful load in the newer Mooneys but the limitations being the gear and stall speed. In regards to stall speed, from what I understand, these are ways to increase load without increasing that speed (while keeping the same wing/design): 1) Reduce airframe weight 2) Increase wingspan 3) Increase chord What nobody has mentioned is flap design. Do you think the flaps could be redesigned to buy a few more knots of reduced stall speed? As far as I know, the flaps have not been altered since the first wood M20. Perhaps going to a slotted flap or even fowler flap could add enough chord to lower stall speed or increase gross weight? With modern materials, servo motors, etc, the 1950 constraints of mechanical connections and wooden wings are no longer relevant. Maybe even go to a full wing length flaperon in two sections. The outer most flap can act as an aileron and/or flap. That's a lot of length to be gained. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 The Lam Aileron concept would be a cool solution to this issue, but a cert challenge. Google that concept and the demonstrator Columbia flying with a smaller wing and the Lam system...It is incredible.Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 I've never been a great fan of the Mooney flap design..I think they function best as approach flaps only,the severe pitch down when full flaps are applied are a function of the simple straight hinge non fowler design.Im not sure if a design change is possible on this wing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 I thought the flaps of either the 301 or the M22 were much better - I forget which model. -Seth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 301 had the great flap design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 They can redesign all this and computers sure help. All certification takes is time and a lot of money... and ideally lots of sales to amortize the costs across...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark89114 Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 There is a 61 knot single engine stall restriction per FAR's design specs somewhere. Is that what the limiting factor is? If it isn't, all of this flap redesign talk is for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 That's the one.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 Off airport, negotiating landing with trees.... is what it is about... Slow down before hitting anything. But don't go so slow you fall out of the sky... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 Yes in the event of the failure of your only power plant, the certification standards want you to have a chance of surviving an off airport landing by keeping stall speed reasonable. Frankly 61kts is pretty quick.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 I've never been a great fan of the Mooney flap design..I think they function best as approach flaps only,the severe pitch down when full flaps are applied are a function of the simple straight hinge non fowler design. But with that severe pitch down, you get lots of drag, at least the flaps rate is equal to the trim rate, so you can keep it close to trimmed by doing both simultaneously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 Ha, my flaps are ten times faster than my trim...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964-M20E Posted April 5, 2017 Report Share Posted April 5, 2017 Winglets??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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