Cowl issue question

[Dream to fly]

Has anyone found a better way to open up the engine compartment on an F model.  There are a lot of screws to twist when you just want to preflight the engine.  I am in the phase of fixing and dealing with corrosion issues and it seems like a no brainer if there is a better cowl out there that makes access easier to the engine.  I've seen a few aircraft that use piano hinges others the whole top pops off with a few fittings.  I'm not worried about cosmetics because when I'm done the bird will be getting a new paint job. 

[carusoam]

Stainless 1/4 turn fasteners make things pretty easy...

Is that the issue?

Best regards,

-a-

[Dream to fly]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Stainless 1/4 turn fasteners make things pretty easy...

Is that the issue?

Best regards,

-a-

I think so the fasteners are all straight slot quarter turn and there are a lot.  I was thinking while I am doing all the repairs why not make it easier to look at the engine.

[gsxrpilot]

Is removing the cowl part of the pre-flight??? I guess I've been doing it all wrong.

[Rmag]

15 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Is removing the cowl part of the pre-flight??? I guess I've been doing it all wrong.

You do it right before jacking it up for the gear swing test.

[rbridges]

4 minutes ago, Rmag said:

You do it right before jacking it up for the gear swing test.

Now I'm confused. Do you do the swing test before or after removing all the inspection panels under the wings?

[Dream to fly]

27 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Is removing the cowl part of the pre-flight??? I guess I've been doing it all wrong.

Comedian,  It was not about every preflight but looking over the engine for things that are loose or rubbing is what I was getting at.  I apologize.  I should have not used the words preflight and clarified my thought.  Looking around the engine is a time consuming ordeal with the fifty screws and separate panels.  A gull wing approach would be really neat. 

[rbridges]

15 minutes ago, Dream to fly said:

Comedian,  It was not about every preflight but looking over the engine for things that are loose or rubbing is what I was getting at.  I apologize.  I should have not used the words preflight and clarified my thought.  Looking around the engine is a time consuming ordeal with the fifty screws and separate panels.  A gull wing approach would be really neat. 

Too bad you can't just have a car hood or something.  Even changing the oil makes me sigh sometimes.

[Dream to fly]

Just now, rbridges said:

Too bad you can't just have a car hood or something.  Even changing the oil makes me sigh sometimes.

If one was to fab a gull wing top section does that have to get FAA blessings?  

[Shadrach]

On 4/4/2017 at 6:14 PM, Dream to fly said:

Comedian,  It was not about every preflight but looking over the engine for things that are loose or rubbing is what I was getting at.  I apologize.  I should have not used the words preflight and clarified my thought.  Looking around the engine is a time consuming ordeal with the fifty screws and separate panels.  A gull wing approach would be really neat. 

It takes less than 10 mins to remove the side and top panels.  While I agree that it's not the most convenient for engine access, it's hardly a time consuming ordeal. There exactly 6 screws, rest a quarter turn camloc fasteners (at least on my 67 F model).  Even if it takes 5 secs a fastener (which doesn't) it's <5mins to loosen everything, maybe another few to to remove panels and place them in a safe and out of the way place.  Have you owned a lot of aircraft? This is very low on PITA scale when it comes to any aircraft, much less a compact design like the Mooney.

[Marauder]

I wonder if there is something unique about your F model. I have 6 Southco Dzus style quick turns on the top, 6 screws that are removed completely from the front and the dozen or so Southco Dzus on each side cheek. Maybe 5 minutes to remove it all. Can you post a picture of what you are dealing with?

Now if you are talking the lower portion of the cowl, that is a different topic.

[XXX]

49 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Now if you are talking the lower portion of the cowl, that is a different topic.

Yes, I think if we had a poll, would you rather 1."r&r lower cowl" or 2. have a "root canal", it might end up in a tie or close to it.

[Dream to fly]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

It takes less than 10 mins to remove the side and top panels.  While I agree that it's not the most convenient for engine access, it's hardly a time consuming ordeal. There exactly 4 screws, rest a quarter turn camloc fasteners (at least on my 67 F model).  Even if it takes 5 secs a fastener (which doesn't) it's <5mins to loosen everything, maybe another few to to remove panels and place them in a safe and out of the way place.  Have you owned a lot of aircraft? This is very low on PITA scale when it comes to any aircraft, much less a compact design like the Mooney.

I think the main problem is they are all original and don't want to turn.  As mentioned in an earlier post I think stainless is the way to go if nothing is available.   I am finding a lot of issues with the previous maintenance.  As soon as I get my camera working I'll post the nightmare.  My whole thing was if it was available I was going to make it easier to access. 

[Dream to fly]

 

59 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I wonder if there is something unique about your F model. I have 6 Southco Dzus style quick turns on the top, 6 screws that are removed completely from the front and the dozen or so Southco Dzus on each side cheek. Maybe 5 minutes to remove it all. Can you post a picture of what you are dealing with?

Now if you are talking the lower portion of the cowl, that is a different topic.

Ok just figured it out YES it is the lower panel!!!  I am calling it the cowl.  By the time I got inside I scratched the paint damaged a fastener and am realizing I am losing my mind.  They are so old and nasty. 

[Shadrach]

Pics would help.

FYI, My camlocs are all 50yrs old this year and they work beautifully. perhaps you should hit yours with a bit of LPS1.

[carusoam]

Ross,

if they spent anytime outside, the 50yr old camlocs are a struggle to get out.  The fasteners themselves cam out making it near impossible to turn. The four or so on the top of the cowl hold water in them. Corrosion slowly erodes the fastener.

 

DTF,

Back to the part about stainless bits and  pieces that makes taking the cowl cheeks off a breeze. Plenty to see in there.  I think I may have looked monthly at my old bird this way.  There was always somebody or something that wanted to live in there.  Or leak and run out of there...

changing the design of anything aviation is a challenge and costly.  Proving your new clamshell design would cost many AMUs.

to get the proper $20 worth of hardware.  You can look them up in a MM and buy them online at AircraftSpruce... Some,special tools may be required. They are available from the same place.  Getting your mechanic to do it is a good way to get it done properly.

Easy peasey...

Best regards,

-a-

Edited April 5, 2017 by carusoam

[XXX]

1 hour ago, Dream to fly said:

 

Ok just figured it out YES it is the lower panel!!!  I am calling it the cowl.  By the time I got inside I scratched the paint damaged a fastener and am realizing I am losing my mind.  They are so old and nasty. 

If you are losing your mind now, just wait until it is time to reconnect the Ram air door cable. Better to leave the oil cooler loose until the ram air cable is attached. Then check the operation of the door before you close up everything. 

[Yetti]

The lower 4th panel is a PITA.  But it is not the panel.  Probably what you will spend the most time is the 6 bolts in the air intake boot. The oil cooler is a challenge but it is at least accessible.  There is a definite need to be able to work blind with your hands.   I have one of the Lowes double ratchet screw drivers for the panels.   Nothing hard...  just time consuming and intentional. 

[Marauder]

And Dream -- that lower panel only needs to be removed in an extreme case of work. Almost everything else to ensure it is in working condition can be viewed with the top and side off. Even the proverbial ram boot can be seen with just the side cheek off on one side. As Chupa mentioned above (funny stuff Chupa!), I would rather have the root canal, at least then I know I could ask for another shot of Novacaine.

[Dream to fly]

Now the light bulb gets bright!!!!!  So I absolutely agree the lower panels are a PITA especially when the previous person to work on it before me used drops of silicone to "hold things tight"   Four hours of cleaning and picking I am done!!!  Everything is coming off and all hardware is getting replaced.  I thought I was crazy and I thought I had not learned a dam thing in 28 years of turning wrenches.  Who uses silicone?  I was assuming it was just that tough.  Now it makes sense and in the future it will be a cake walk. 

[Yetti]

I am guessing silicone like caulk and not silicone like spray or oil....

[Dream to fly]

Just now, Yetti said:

I am guessing silicone like caulk and not silicone like spray or oil....

like RTV silicone.

[Hank]

6 minutes ago, Dream to fly said:

Now the light bulb gets bright!!!!!  So I absolutely agree the lower panels are a PITA especially when the previous person to work on it before me used drops of silicone to "hold things tight"   Four hours of cleaning and picking I am done!!!  Everything is coming off and all hardware is getting replaced.  I thought I was crazy and I thought I had not learned a dam thing in 28 years of turning wrenches.  Who uses silicone?  I was assuming it was just that tough.  Now it makes sense and in the future it will be a cake walk. 

That's awful!

[carusoam]

On the bright side...  you have MS to help.

20 years ago you knew there was a MM somewhere, but had no way to find it...

GO MS!

Best regards,

-a-

Edited April 5, 2017 by carusoam

[Yetti]

10 hours ago, Dream to fly said:

like RTV silicone.

Grumble.   There were a fair amount of Grumble moments going through my plane.    You find that one certified mechanics definition of "airworthy" does not meet my uninformed never worked on a plane before definition of "airworthy"

Also developed the phrase "various degrees of precision"

Take the elbow in the picture that came off my oil cooler.  I can tell you exactly what happened. Someone used a pair of channel locks to move it around to the proper angle and buggered the threads.  Too lazy to go get the open end wrench. But then went and just put the oil line on like it was OK. Oh and Teflon tape... Grumble