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Question for the Controllers on MooneySpace


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I spent the last couple days flying with another Mooney owner who had a GTX-345 installed recently. We picked up a lot of traffic, a lot more than I saw on my GDL-39. Some of them passed close-by without ever seeing them. Like this one:

 

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Since you guys see things all day long, do you see a lot of what you would consider "close encounters"?

 

 

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56 minutes ago, kortopates said:

100' below you sure looks like your ghost!


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54 minutes ago, peevee said:

Very possible.

Especially if you're not adsb out.

It was a real plane. There was actually 2 of them flying in a loose formation. We watched them both come from our left and we climbed to get above them. The second one started to climb and passed behind us. If you look at the photo, you will see both of them on the map.

Just curious how many times a controller sees this happening and isn't talking to them.

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There is a VOR just west of the Detroit Class B airspace that is used a lot for practice approaches.  Local controllers call it "The Airshow" because of the numbers of airplanes, all about the same altitude, not talking to anybody.

Watching it on my ADSB now that I have 'Out' is scary.

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Local controllers call it "The Airshow" because of the numbers of airplanes, all about the same altitude, not talking to anybody.


Add into the mix some serious ultralight activity during the summer. I've had some many close calls near the SVM VOR it's not even funny. I've actually researched purchasing a surplus active fire control radar to take defensive flying to a new level. I once flew out of 1D2 and I could tell you some stories about some oddball pilots.


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11 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

It was a real plane. There was actually 2 of them flying in a loose formation. We watched them both come from our left and we climbed to get above them. The second one started to climb and passed behind us. If you look at the photo, you will see both of them on the map.

Just curious how many times a controller sees this happening and isn't talking to them.

gees.  I thought it was a ghost, too.  100' is too close for my comfort.  :o

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I recently started using a Stratux which feeds my tablet traffic info.   Generally targets are little yellow circles, and a close target is a black circle with a red border and an airplane inside to show heading and a text box to show altitude.   The Arrow I rent has a GNS430 and ADS-B-in with traffic alerts that will occasionally give audio warnings when it thinks there is close traffic and will tell you when it loses the TIS-B link.  I've put the airplane detailed info, N-number, transponder ID, etc., into my EFB, but it still gets confused by the Stratux data sometimes and sometimes shows multiple ghosts, usually my current location and then often one following behind a little bit.

A couple of months ago I had a student pilot friend along on a trip and we were both still getting used to using the Stratux with our tabs, and we both noticed at the same time that there were *three* ghosts, our current position, one behind us, and one in front of us, exactly on our GPS track, but pointed the opposite direction (i.e., exactly at us).  We were both looking inside-outside-inside-outside-inside-outside trying to figure out if it was a ghost or something real.   The symmetry of the display, with a central target, one behind and one in front, was just the sort of thing to make you question what you were looking at.   We couldn't spot anything outside until suddenly we saw the flash of a Seminole's wings turn and dive in front of us.  He saw us first, and he was real, and it was close.  The GNS did not alert.

I usually fly with the landing light on all the time, and I don't know but it may have made the difference in this case.   My buddy always gives me crap for doing that, but I think I'll keep doing it.   ;)

And now I don't question the traffic display.

And I wonder, too, whether that stuff alerts on an ATC display if neither aircraft is under ATC control.   We weren't, and I suspect the other traffic wasn't, either.

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If the flight plan is filed correctly, it gets accepted into the system.  Once it is in the system it can be accessed pretty quickly by all the various parts of ATC...

It won't matter what you used to file it.

I was using fltplan.com for doing my flight plan filing.  You get a message back that says your plan has been filed.

If you don't get some kind of verification, your plan probably didn't get filed properly. ATC is pretty good with communication that goes two ways.

PP thoughts only not a CFI.

Does that come close to answering your question?

If you file your flight plan you can activate it in the air by contacting approach control.

If you contact the wrong part of ATC. They will refer you to the proper group and give you a frequency pretty quickly.  Be ready to copy on paper.

See if you can update your question about what you are trying to do.  There will plenty of CFIs with better answers than mine.

know that your tail number is the key for ATC to find your plan.  It is really helpful if your departure time is actually in the window.

If you are on the ground looking to see if the tower has your flight plan.  You probably want to contact clearance delivery.  These are the people that handle the flight plan portion of IFR flights.

the tower possibly will have... clearance delivery, ground control, departure control, tower, approach control.  Decide what you need, tune the right frequency, call them using your tail number... let them answer you, then ask your question...

does this get you closer?

Best regards,

-a-

Edited by carusoam
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6 minutes ago, peevee said:

I don't believe vfr flight plans go really anywhere but flight service. You can probably ask them to open and close it and they might but they're probably just calling locmart

I was always under the same impression, that VFR flight planes are a product of Flight Service.  Before my IFR rating (a long time ago) I had a VFR flight plan filed into Longmont CO (just outside of Denver).  I hit stronger than expected head winds (going west bound) and Flight Service was looking for me when I landed.  I apparently had exceeded the 1/2 hour window.  I was told in the future call "Flight Service" with an update on the delay and I couldn't call ATC.  I had been on flight following and there was no communication between ATC and Flight Service.

Tom

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I just spoke to a local tower guy, he is only VFR like me. He says he is not sure why they still have VFR Flight plans that are controller by flight services.  Your on your own except for the time frame that you filed to get where you going. If you don't make it there on time they are looking for you. Which is a good thing.

With Flight Following, your on radar at all times and you can cancel while in the air with ATC when your in your landing area.  

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**********

New ATC Question:

What is a good altitude to get cleared into the Bravo, even on a T-Route, when my direct path [200-250 nm] goes to the NE directly over the center of ATL? I've been flying back and forth around the north and south, generally adding 30 minutes to what should be a 90 minute flight. Sometimes I find myself mumbling HEFIN or CINKA in my sleep . . . And I have never been cleared into the Bravo whether at 4500 or 10,000; sometimes when passing the approach corridor to 27 on the east side they will ask me to descend to ~6000 msl. But I always get the detour. If they don't ask, I don't descend, but at 9500 I keep a sharp lookout.

Any ideas? Right now, I just use the Bravo's green line on my 430W like I'm driving down the beltway, and keep the left wing from touching it on 50nm scale. Day, night, morning, afternoon, evening, rain, shine, clear, cloudy, overcast--"remain clear of the Bravo." And my C is not the best thing to overfly above the 12,500 msl ceiling, but sometimes it's tempting to try, while squawking 1200 . . . . If I had a Missile or Ovation, I would for sure. :D

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1 hour ago, Rookie said:

 

With Flight Following, your on radar at all times and you can cancel while in the air with ATC when your in your landing area.  

Not necessarily. Especially out west.

Most of the times yes, and you'll hear the words radar contact lost when not. It's up to them if they want to keep you up or terminate 

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1 hour ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

I was always under the same impression, that VFR flight planes are a product of Flight Service.  Before my IFR rating (a long time ago) I had a VFR flight plan filed into Longmont CO (just outside of Denver).  I hit stronger than expected head winds (going west bound) and Flight Service was looking for me when I landed.  I apparently had exceeded the 1/2 hour window.  I was told in the future call "Flight Service" with an update on the delay and I couldn't call ATC.  I had been on flight following and there was no communication between ATC and Flight Service.

Tom

Where's Longmont? Never been. :)

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Hank, I fly near ATL a lot and even on IFR flights, they rarely allow me into Bravo if I'm westbound to Alabama or eastbound to SC.  When I'm westbound from SC and landing at Paulding County/Silver Comet Field, which is right on the opposite edge of their Bravo from me, they'll usually vector me over Gwinnett County on the northeast edge and then westbound, Direct through Bravo, keeping me above the control tower's airspaces along the way and dropping me below their 6,000/7,000ft shelves and out of Bravo.  But with Cobb Co Intl/Dobbins AFB/Fulton Co/Peachtree Dekalb in the area, they are awful busy calling out traffic to me and others.  War Eagle.

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