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Long distance neurosis


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There are lies, damned lies and statistics. Sorry about your drowned friend . . .

Fly safe. Right now, my 47 year old plane is 380 nm away, having the left mag overhauled. Fortunately I had a convenient Plan B ready, and hope to recover the plane this weekend. I've owned her for ten years, this is the first away-from-home problem.  

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9 hours ago, salty said:

I'm doing all of this and oil analysis, compressions and oil consumption are not concerning. Im flying 8-10 hours a month, usually at least one weekend day if not both. As I said, the engine isn't really worrying me, but it is a reality that I am way over TBO. Someday it will start worrying me, and I'm afraid that day will be when I'm far afield. 

Excellent!  I am jealous of your hours flown.   Sounds like you're doing everything that can be done.    

It's certainly not a crime if you overhaul it before you are forced.  I just wouldn't hesitate to keep flying it if those parameters look good, while making up my mind.  Good luck!  

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17 hours ago, Yetti said:

This won't help but it is something to ponder.  Let's take the M1 Abrams tank...  Let's say the parts have a Mean Time Between Failure of one million hours.  Let's say there are 1 million parts on the tank.   By definition the tank should break down once an hour.   In other news a statistician drowned crossing a stream with an average depth of 4 feet.

Aside from the humor - and I did get a laugh - it brought a practical thought to mind, and that is it is useful to get acquainted with the vulnerabilities of your particular aircraft, and what the symptoms are of incipient failure.  Then don't wait, get any problems addressed early.  Concrete example, 231's don't have the best alternator couplers in the world, and when the coupler dies so does the alternator and with it your entire panel.  We - meaning my A&P and I - went through a spate of bad couplers.  One symptom that the coupler was going to fail, was that on a cold day I would have to let the engine run for awhile so the coupler could warm up and "grab" and the buss voltage would then come up.  I learned to get the plane in to the mechanic sooner rather than later, even though I could usually run for another 50 hours or so before the coupler would fail, because invariably it would happen somewhere inconvenient.  I also have learned not to let  "500 hour" items like the mags and the vacuum pump, go over the 500 hour mark.  Sure you might get 600 or more hours out of them, but invariably they fail, again, somewhere inconvenient.  Lastly, find a really good mechanic.  I have had several try to kill me.  Of course they don't mean to, but when you have to deal with the in-air emergency they created you learn to be choosy. 

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22 hours ago, Hank said:

There are lies, damned lies and statistics. Sorry about your drowned friend . . .

 

Meh statisticians are a dime a dozen.  For some reason my business computer degree needed a minor in statistics.  The only thing I have used from all the coursework is how to make charts and graphs say whatever I need them too.  Also really easy to see when someone is trying to pull the wool over my eyes.

 

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On 4/2/2017 at 5:45 AM, salty said:

My real anxiety is if I'm 1,000 miles from home at some unknown airport and my engine (I'm WAY past TBO) decides it's had enough, what the heck am I going to do?

Just fly a little higher than normal.  The mooney glide ratio should have you covered.......

Edited by Jim Peace
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19 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

Just fly a little higher than normal.  The mooney glide ratio should have you covered.......

I generally climb to ~5000' if the flight is under an hour, but do my real traveling at 9000-10,000 msl. Plenty of glide distance available . . . 10.3:1 unless the prop stops.

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On 4/2/2017 at 9:23 AM, gsxrpilot said:

What @gsengle said. I can't remember if you said you have an engine monitor or not. If not, get an Insight G2 installed in that plane at the earliest opportunity. You'll feel a LOT more confident flying it across the country.  

JPI is running an instant rebate till April 20th that makes the 830 less than the G2 from Spruce.

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Don't worry be happy. Any mechanical device can fail the fact that the airplane got you far from home is a good indication it will get you home. Also, your engine has made it to TBO tells me it's a good one and can be trusted. Our C has over 6000 hours on it and still has the original engine OH a few times. I have more faith in a proven performer than something brand new with an uncertain future. Fly it and learn its traits IMHO the best device for detecting problems is knowing how it behaves normally I can tell instantly when something isn't quite right. Pay attention to your oil your  compression etc and whenever the cowl is off give it a thorough inspection 

Enjoy your airplane that's what you got it for.

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Hi Salty. You're based near me! I have flown my airplane all over the eastern U.S. and have been as far West as San Antonio, as far North as St. Ignace and am planning a trip to Plymouth this summer. I've only had two problems during my cross country adventures. One was a spark plug that gave me a bad run-up in Jonesboro, Arkansas while heading home from Kansas City. The mechanic on the field cleaned and pressure checked the plugs, replaced the one that was bad and sent me on my way. The second problem occurred on a Saturday up at Williston, Florida during a $100 hamburger flight...36 minutes from home base. My starter crapped out and needed to be replaced.

I wouldn't think of your airplane as a 50 year old airplane for reliability purposes unless all of your components were original. If that were the case, I wouldn't want to fly it in the first place. 

My oil and fuel hoses are two years old. My alternator is four years old. My starter is less than a year old. My battery is a few months old. The airframe may be forty three years old but the components that impact reliability are much newer. That is the point I am trying to make.

Don't let the potential for being inconvenienced deter you from the fantastic adventures you will have by flying cross country. My wife and I were in Menominee, WI. with plans to head towards Oshkosh and Green Bay but the weather wasn't cooperating. I simply gave her a choice of heading home from where we were or taking "the northern route" home. She opted for the adventure of the unknown and we crossed Wisconsin and flew across Michigan's upper peninsula...now I understand why the Great Lakes are called "The Great Lakes", circled Mackinac Island before landing at St. Ignace for fuel. Had to go to Pellston to get a rental car...with the help of the nice lady at St. Ignace' FBO...then got a room at Mackinac City.

We ended up spending a day on Mackinac, toured Fort Mackinac and had lunch at the Grand Hotel. Sat and rocked on their famous front porch overlooking the straits. It was a memorable day!

From there we headed home and got caught in weather down by Cincinnati. We dropped into Clermont County, Batavia, Ohio...home of Sportys...on a Saturday. It was free hot dog day. The nice folks at Sportys gave us a courtesy car and found us the ONLY available hotel room in the area. They really couldn't do enough for us. Made it home the next day.

If I let the worry of being inconvenienced stand in the way...see what adventure I would have missed?!

If I can fly from Florida to Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Virginia, Arkansas, Kentucky, South Carolina, Mississippi, Georgia and probably some others that have slipped my memory for the time being...IN A 172...these trips should be a breeze for you in your Mooney. Go have some fun!

Edited by BKlott
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On 4/2/2017 at 10:45 AM, gsengle said:

But not the big fields as non of us can afford jet mechanics to work on our airplanes...

I was grounded once at FDK and at Signature no less. Turns out that they are thick with jet-jockey-A&P youngsters, but they called in an older, retired fellow to work my E. He did a great job and I was back in the air in short order. Wasn't cheap, but certainly not jet service cost.

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On 4/10/2017 at 10:11 PM, BKlott said:

Hi Salty. You're based near me! I have flown my airplane all over the eastern U.S. and have been as far West as San Antonio, as far North as St. Ignace and am planning a trip to Plymouth this summer. I've only had two problems during my cross country adventures. One was a spark plug that gave me a bad run-up in Jonesboro, Arkansas while heading home from Kansas City. The mechanic on the field cleaned and pressure checked the plugs, replaced the one that was bad and sent me on my way. The second problem occurred on a Saturday up at Williston, Florida during a $100 hamburger flight...36 minutes from home base. My starter crapped out and needed to be replaced.

I wouldn't think of your airplane as a 50 year old airplane for reliability purposes unless all of your components were original. If that were the case, I wouldn't want to fly it in the first place. 

My oil and fuel hoses are two years old. My alternator is four years old. My starter is less than a year old. My battery is a few months old. The airframe may be forty three years old but the components that impact reliability are much newer. That is the point I am trying to make.

Don't let the potential for being inconvenienced deter you from the fantastic adventures you will have by flying cross country. My wife and I were in Menominee, WI. with plans to head towards Oshkosh and Green Bay but the weather wasn't cooperating. I simply gave her a choice of heading home from where we were or taking "the northern route" home. She opted for the adventure of the unknown and we crossed Wisconsin and flew across Michigan's upper peninsula...now I understand why the Great Lakes are called "The Great Lakes", circled Mackinac Island before landing at St. Ignace for fuel. Had to go to Pellston to get a rental car...with the help of the nice lady at St. Ignace' FBO...then got a room at Mackinac City.

We ended up spending a day on Mackinac, toured Fort Mackinac and had lunch at the Grand Hotel. Sat and rocked on their famous front porch overlooking the straits. It was a memorable day!

From there we headed home and got caught in weather down by Cincinnati. We dropped into Clermont County, Batavia, Ohio...home of Sportys...on a Saturday. It was free hot dog day. The nice folks at Sportys gave us a courtesy car and found us the ONLY available hotel room in the area. They really couldn't do enough for us. Made it home the next day.

If I let the worry of being inconvenienced stand in the way...see what adventure I would have missed?!

If I can fly from Florida to Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Virginia, Arkansas, Kentucky, South Carolina, Mississippi, Georgia and probably some others that have slipped my memory for the time being...IN A 172...these trips should be a breeze for you in your Mooney. Go have some fun!

Mackinac Island is on our list near the top! Shouldn't be too hard, as we're in central Michigan! :D

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Around 2008 while still VFR only and with about 50 hours in the Mooney we decided to go to KFFA an overnight trip.  The day at Kitty Hawk and following night were fabulous. However, the following morning we had a problem with the voltage regulator so we stopped at KMQI.  That was on a Friday so we ended up staying the weekend and had an even better adventure exploring the lighthouses of the Outer Banks. 

It was an an inconvenience, and the new voltage regulator was not cheap, but that totally unforeseen breakdown turned into some great memories that we still talk about from time to time. 

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I don't understand why 1,000 miles away from my home base is really that much worse than 10 miles away.  It's not my mechanic and I have to find a ride home and then a ride back to get the plane when it's fixed.  Car rental and commercial tickets may run $600 or so for both ways, but that's the same price as maybe 5 hours of flying time.  Just fly less next month and be a little sad.

I flew for work from Seattle to Georgia once.   Everybody said "Don't do that, if you HAVE to get there, don't use your Mooney (or any GA plane)".  

The way I thought about it, is that at pretty much every stop along the way it's probably cheaper and faster for the plane to break down and for me to buy an airline ticket at the last minute to complete the journey.  But it all worked great and I had a wonderful time and spent a lot of money!

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On 4/3/2017 at 0:45 PM, salty said:

I'm doing all of this and oil analysis, compressions and oil consumption are not concerning. Im flying 8-10 hours a month, usually at least one weekend day if not both. As I said, the engine isn't really worrying me, but it is a reality that I am way over TBO. Someday it will start worrying me, and I'm afraid that day will be when I'm far afield. 

When you say you are way over tbo...how much over....how much time with this engine do you have?I know tbo is just a number...but somewhere I saw a graph plotting TT and failures...midlife seemed to have lowest...if you have 3000 hrs on this engine and your subconscious is telling you it's overhaul time ,than you will start to develop overhaul anxiety no matter what other people tell you.

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44 minutes ago, salty said:

2630TT and 2630 SMOH. It's never had a bottom end overhaul. 

Has the engine ever been apart before or is it original to the airframe? To me that is almost just as important as TSMOH, if you're engine has never been apart in its 52 years its time for an overhaul.

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I don't understand why 1,000 miles away from my home base is really that much worse than 10 miles away.  It's not my mechanic and I have to find a ride home and then a ride back to get the plane when it's fixed.  Car rental and commercial tickets may run $600 or so for both ways, but that's the same price as maybe 5 hours of flying time.  Just fly less next month and be a little sad.
I flew for work from Seattle to Georgia once.   Everybody said "Don't do that, if you HAVE to get there, don't use your Mooney (or any GA plane)".  
The way I thought about it, is that at pretty much every stop along the way it's probably cheaper and faster for the plane to break down and for me to buy an airline ticket at the last minute to complete the journey.  But it all worked great and I had a wonderful time and spent a lot of money!


All true and I won't be dissuaded from traveling but one of my two precautionary / emergency landings away from home turned out to have a good shop and a reasonable path home. The other was a really difficult situation where I landed just after six pm at the highest airport in the east, khsp. Everyone (the one guy) had left and headed down the mountain at six. No cell phone service, no pay phone. No maintenance either. Finally figured out how to get an operator on an exterior building mounted phone who called the sheriff who knew the airport guy who was willing to come back up and fetch me and take me to a b&b in town. The nearest car rental was an hour from there, but enterprise did eventually get me. Then a 9 hour drive. And the plane still had to be fetched later, a while nother story. It all worked out but it was a pain!


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