Shadrach Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Bob_Belville said: Fs are great... except compared to Es for TO distance, climb rate, cruise speed...! Ha! Climb and Take off roll is weight dependent, same weight same performance. The E has a 40lb weight advantage. I can make up for that just by weighing in at under 180lbs... I'll give you the 3kts the Mooney Pilot's Evaluation showed if you think that's significant. ( 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTaylor Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 5 hours ago, andymccann said: The title may say it all... still educating myself on the breed. I still think I'm looking for an E, but I'd like to learn as much as I can on the unique traits of each model. For example, they built a lot of C's, but ended production of D's after a fairly brief run. I kind of wish Gordon Baxter was still around, I remember he was a real champion of Mooney and he'd probably have a lot to say (still). Thanks. There are many threads on the differences. You will find fans of each model. It really comes down your mission which model fits that mission best. Generally the C, D, and E are good as 3 person aircaft. The E having 20 additional horsepower. The G and F have room for 4 and just a little more comfortable cabin space. While you will hear all types of claims about speeds, there is really not that much difference in stock speeds. As with Lake Wobegon, everyone's Mooney is above average. I have owned both a C and now an F. I enjoyed my C, but love the greater all around capability of the F. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean S Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 I picked the F for the extra leg room on the back. After I took a test flight with an E owner who was 6" tall and looking behind him in flight I knew I needed the mid body with two teenagers! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 9 hours ago, Shadrach said: Ha! Climb and Take off roll is weight dependent, same weight same performance. The E has a 40lb weight advantage. I can make up for that just by weighing in at under 180lbs... I'll give you the 3kts the Mooney Pilot's Evaluation showed if you think that's significant. ( I posted the pic to show the OPer the 158 ktas at 9500'. What's your F's cruise at 9-10,000'? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooniac15u Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 10 hours ago, Shadrach said: I've alway wondered how they got 5 more inches in back. Was the rear set in your C ahead of the spar rather than over the spar? The rear seats in my D and J seem to be in the same position relative to the spar. The wing (and therefore the spar) is 5" further back in mid body Mooneys. From the TCDS: For M20D, datum is the centerline of the nose gear support bolts and is fuselage station 0.00. The Leading Edge of the wing at wing station 59.25 is 33.00 inches aft of fuselage station 0.00. For M20J, datum is 5.00 inches aft of the center line of the nose gear support bolts and is fuselage station 0.00. The Leading Edge of the wing at wing station 59.25 is 33.00 inches aft of fuselage station 0.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooniac15u Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 12 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: Nope, I'm of average height, 5'10". There might be longer seat rails in the mid bodies since there is another 5" back to the spar. But supposedly the cage dimensions and the seat rail positions (front edges) are exactly the same in all Mooney's from Short to Mid to Long bodies. The seat rails and seat positions may well be the same between the short and mid body Mooneys. I've never tried to measure the actual distances from rudder pedals to seat positions. What I know is that the bottom of the panel on my D physically prevented me moving my seat up from the rearmost position. My knees and the panel could not occupy the same space. In my J I have more clearance for my legs with the seat in the rearmost position and I can even fly it with the seat moved up one notch. I don't know whether that's because the seat is farther back or the bottom of the panel is higher or the maybe the whole footwell is larger. Whatever dimensions are different makes a small but noticable difference in legroom for someone of my height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 15 minutes ago, mooniac15u said: The rear seats in my D and J seem to be in the same position relative to the spar. The wing (and therefore the spar) is 5" further back in mid body Mooneys. From the TCDS: For M20D, datum is the centerline of the nose gear support bolts and is fuselage station 0.00. The Leading Edge of the wing at wing station 59.25 is 33.00 inches aft of fuselage station 0.00. For M20J, datum is 5.00 inches aft of the center line of the nose gear support bolts and is fuselage station 0.00. The Leading Edge of the wing at wing station 59.25 is 33.00 inches aft of fuselage station 0.00. They added 5" in front of the spar, so to keep the wing leading edge at the same location they had to shift the datum point that same five inches. Note the wing leading edge in comparison to the forward edge of the pilot's window, as well as the rear edge to the aileron: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameIsNobody Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 Model snobbery and envy. Funny-Strange. Just love your bird because. Why the need to slag on other models? Mirror knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 35 minutes ago, MyNameIsNobody said: Model snobbery and envy. Funny-Strange. Just love your bird because. Why the need to slag on other models? Mirror knows. Buy, or rent, a sense of humor. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 3 hours ago, Bob_Belville said: I posted the pic to show the OPer the 158 ktas at 9500'. What's your F's cruise at 9-10,000'? My F is not modded Bob, so you've got maybe 8 to 10kts on me (Every one of which you've paid good money for). Apples to apples the difference is minuscule, but the E is faster. Perhaps ask Chris where his F cruises for comparison though I don't think he has the power flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 hour ago, mooniac15u said: The seat rails and seat positions may well be the same between the short and mid body Mooneys. I've never tried to measure the actual distances from rudder pedals to seat positions. What I know is that the bottom of the panel on my D physically prevented me moving my seat up from the rearmost position. My knees and the panel could not occupy the same space. In my J I have more clearance for my legs with the seat in the rearmost position and I can even fly it with the seat moved up one notch. I don't know whether that's because the seat is farther back or the bottom of the panel is higher or the maybe the whole footwell is larger. Whatever dimensions are different makes a small but noticable difference in legroom for someone of my height. In my F model, the bottom of the panel is part of the steel roll cage. It is the easiest thing to grip when pulling yourself forward in the seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 11 minutes ago, Shadrach said: In my F model, the bottom of the panel is part of the steel roll cage. It is the easiest thing to grip when pulling yourself forward in the seat. Assuming the steel cage around the panel is the same from C to K and maybe beyond... The panel in most C's (likely D's, E's, etc) have a gold colored strip across the bottom of the panel where switches, breakers, etc are. I wonder if that panel hangs below the cross bar in the steel cage? In my K, the panel has a mandrel bend where the panel wraps around the lower edge of that same cross bar. Maybe that is some of the difference @mooniac15u is reporting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 22 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said: Assuming the steel cage around the panel is the same from C to K and maybe beyond... The panel in most C's (likely D's, E's, etc) have a gold colored strip across the bottom of the panel where switches, breakers, etc are. I wonder if that panel hangs below the cross bar in the steel cage? In my K, the panel has a mandrel bend where the panel wraps around the lower edge of that same cross bar. Maybe that is some of the difference @mooniac15u is reporting. My F is like your K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said: Assuming the steel cage around the panel is the same from C to K and maybe beyond... The panel in most C's (likely D's, E's, etc) have a gold colored strip across the bottom of the panel where switches, breakers, etc are. I wonder if that panel hangs below the cross bar in the steel cage? In my K, the panel has a mandrel bend where the panel wraps around the lower edge of that same cross bar. Maybe that is some of the difference @mooniac15u is reporting. They stopped that strip at some point, my 1970 C doesn't have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameIsNobody Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Bob_Belville said: Buy, or rent, a sense of humor. This response very funny and predictable. Thank you for the laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 18 hours ago, Shadrach said: Oh and let me warn you on behalf of the folks flying behind parallel valve, carburetted O360s that the injected angle valve IO360s are hard to start (they're actually quite easy to start, but this is a favored critic among the carburetted cognoscenti) I've never started a Mooney with an IO360. What I will tell you is that from day one, my C starts reliably hot, or cold using virtually any technique that involves fuel, air and spark. I haven't a clue why there are so many threads on MS about starting the IO360. A complete mystery to me. Does that make me a cognoscenti? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Shadrach said: My F is not modded Bob, so you've got maybe 8 to 10kts on me (Every one of which you've paid good money for). Apples to apples the difference is minuscule, but the E is faster. Perhaps ask Chris where his F cruises for comparison though I don't think he has the power flow. 9000' below = 154 KTAS - 150 KTAS depending on power setting, ram door closed. 10,000 to 13,000 = 152 KTAS - 146 KTAS full power, ram door closed. With the ram open, add about 1 to 2 KTAS to the numbers above. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 5 hours ago, Shadrach said: Apples to apples the difference is minuscule, but the E is faster. Perhaps ask Chris where his F cruises for comparison though I don't think he has the power flow. There is also some handling quirkiness between the two (and both apparently are quirky, though I have never flown an F). Not knowing anything else except anemic Cessgnats and Ercoupes, I have always felt my E flies like a fighter jet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20F Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 A E is "Super" which makes you sound like some teenager. A F is an Executive and fits like a Brioni suite with a nice cigar lighter and a retractable step. Do you want to be super or be an Executive is the question. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonal Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 I guess that makes us converted D owners Master Rangers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20F Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 Just now, bonal said: I guess that makes us converted D owners Master Rangers I rest my case.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonal Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 59 minutes ago, bonal said: I guess that makes us converted D owners Master Rangers My '70 C is a Ranger. What were they when your D was made? At one point to they were called Chaparral, only the E was a Super 21 once upon a time. "M20 Super 21" is an unusual concatenation, dontcha think? Sorry, Harley . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonal Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 I guess it would depend on when the conversion was done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooniac15u Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 D owners are Master Pilots. Pretty much says it all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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