Dream to fly Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 First off let me say thanks to all who commented this is an awesome site! So I went down to see the bird with all the inspection plates, carpets, seats and everything else spread out on the hanger floor. That is a stomach turner! There are spots about the size of a half dollar in some of the inside panels that have white powder corrosion. Some of the control rods are light brown with surface rust. The spar and the inside of the wings look good to better then good almost 20 years newer. There are some rivets and almost all the hardware is turning from oxidation. The AP and I counted like 75 rivets that could use replacement because of rust color. The cage looks good on the CO-pilot side but I will see more when the interior is fully disassembled. So as far as corrosion I think it is fixable but will require professional help and a painter to apply new coatings to the inside of all the panels and belly section. The brake master is leaking from the casting. The flap actuator is not working because the seals are on the outside of the cylinder. The fuel valve is leaking from the shaft. The biggest problem I saw was that both lower cowl panels that the front gear doors attach to, that hide the fuel valve and pump need replacement. The same for the other side where the exhaust is. They are not corroded but such a shoddy patch of high speed bird poop welding or JB weld that it is not even usable. The oil leak is from the last AP who installed the oil cooler not tightening the fitting properly and rechecking before buttoning it up. I've got the AP sending the master cylinder, fuel valve, and the flap pump to LASAR for repair or replacement and I am spending the next two weeks elbows deep in cleaning and replacing all the rusty hardware with the AP looking over me. I am going to need a source to find those lower panels. My two cents is that anyone who buys a used plane should skip the pre-buy and pay for an annual inspection with an independent or dealer. It forces two things to happen the owner to buck up and fess up to things that are hidden and the AP to do his job and question everything. I should have gone this route but broke the cardinal rule and trusted the owner/AP of the aircraft. That said I think it will be ok and I am thankful its not worse. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 How are the hoses. You might considering getting a set from PHT hoses in Tulsa and doing them while you are all opened up. It will be one less thing to do later. Get the upgraded ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Keep the faith. They are a bit of work to bring them back, but once you get them going they are really fun to fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Call the plane salvage place in Greely Colorado they had a E or F they were parting out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 LASAR is a good source for used parts, as well as Jerry Pressley (search on this site). Good luck, and it get her back in shape! It will be worth the effort.Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Also check with Alan Fox on this site. He is our Sanford from Sanford & Son. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dream to fly Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 So along with panels I'll need new rotors. Are Cleveland rotors really 335.00 a piece? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) This thread makes me look like that I have the second most positive attitude... Way to go DTF! Stay positive. It may look like a long runway ahead... but, done correctly, you will be off the ground before the halfway point! Best regards, -a- Edited March 29, 2017 by carusoam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clh Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 26 minutes ago, Dream to fly said: So along with panels I'll need new rotors. Are Cleveland rotors really 335.00 a piece? http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/stpages/mooneyM20standardreplacementparts.php?clickkey=13908 looks like Chrome are 300, If you fly often I would go with the standard for less than 1/2 the price.0 The rapco's are even cheaper. I bought them last year. will let you know how they run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 You could probably go used on rotors. Since you are calling the salvage yards anyways. Since the side panels are already out, it is not too hard to make new ones. A couple hours a piece to do. Leather and alum sheet backing. Look up "3 leather hides" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVIDWH Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Oh My, Don't want to go negative on your project, but for your future life planning stages, please remember, divorce attorneys are expensive, so make plans to budget accordingly. As stated in the encouraging replies above, KBO,KBO,KBO. This was how Winston Churchhill ended every phone conversation with Roosevelt during the war. Keep Buggering On!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Hang in there, Joe. When you are done, you will have a great plane you will fly for a long time. I am sure you will remember the work you are putting into it and vow to never let any maintenance be deferred on your watch. Plus, you will have a bird you know inside out - something many of us are striving to do. LASAR, Jerry and Alan are all good sources for used Mooney parts, but if you run up against something none of them have, there is always the factory. Best of luck, and keep us updated. We love to watch people bring these birds back to life! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
75_M20F Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 at 9:59 PM, Dream to fly said: My two cents is that anyone who buys a used plane should skip the pre-buy and pay for an annual inspection with an independent or dealer. It forces two things to happen the owner to buck up and fess up to things that are hidden and the AP to do his job and question everything. I should have gone this route but broke the cardinal rule and trusted the owner/AP of the aircraft. That said I think it will be ok and I am thankful its not worse. I did that for my airplane when I bought it. Had an annual done at a Mooney shop combined with a test flight. Instead of a "prebuy" because what the hell is a 'prebuy"? Everyone has their own idea and it's not defined. Plus the mechanic has no "skin in the game" with a prebuy. With an annual they have sign it off putting their livelihood on the dotted line. They found many things that needed correction during my"prebuy" annual, that would have gone undetected in the typical prebuy inspection. (There are two mooney space trolls that will take great offense to what I just said. Hahahaha ) Edited March 30, 2017 by Mooney_Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 11 hours ago, Mooney_Mike said: I did that for my airplane when I bought it. Had an annual done at a Mooney shop combined with a test flight. Instead of a "prebuy" because what the hell is a 'prebuy"? Everyone has their own idea and it's not defined. Plus the mechanic has no "skin in the game" with a prebuy. With an annual they have sign it off putting their livelihood on the dotted line. They found many things that needed correction during my"prebuy" annual, that would have gone undetected in the typical prebuy inspection. (There are two mooney space trolls that will take great offense to what I just said. Hahahaha ) I didn't do a prebuy and wound up with a Super Mooney. Of course, the plane had been annualed religiously at Maxwell's for a decade, so a call and chat was all it took to tell me that "it's a good E". Then I flew it and that was it. Far more important than the so-called "prebuy" is doing your homework. So much info is out on the web on vintage Mooneys (50+ years worth) that there really is no excuse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 16 hours ago, Mooney_Mike said: I did that for my airplane when I bought it. Had an annual done at a Mooney shop combined with a test flight. Instead of a "prebuy" because what the hell is a 'prebuy"? Everyone has their own idea and it's not defined. Plus the mechanic has no "skin in the game" with a prebuy. With an annual they have sign it off putting their livelihood on the dotted line. They found many things that needed correction during my"prebuy" annual, that would have gone undetected in the typical prebuy inspection. (There are two mooney space trolls that will take great offense to what I just said. Hahahaha ) I'm not really sure that the maintainer has any more skin in the game with an annual, I've seen annuals done and signed out on airplane I would never get in. There is always deniability, "Your honour the spar was not corroded last year when I did the annual" leaving you to prove it was and him/her to say it wasn't. It really comes down to picking a thorough maintainer and clearly defining what will be done for the PPI. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 5 hours ago, M20Doc said: I'm not really sure that the maintainer has any more skin in the game with an annual, I've seen annuals done and signed out on airplane I would never get in. There is always deniability, "Your honour the spar was not corroded last year when I did the annual" leaving you to prove it was and him/her to say it wasn't. It really comes down to picking a thorough maintainer and clearly defining what will be done for the PPI. Clarence Totally depends on who does the annual, but I agree, why not combine the PPI with an annual if it is due? Just make sure it is done by a reputable MSC and an extra list of inspection items is included. So this now begs the question: are there disreputable MSC's out there? I frankly do not know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 7 hours ago, HRM said: Totally depends on who does the annual, but I agree, why not combine the PPI with an annual if it is due? Just make sure it is done by a reputable MSC and an extra list of inspection items is included. So this now begs the question: are there disreputable MSC's out there? I frankly do not know. I know of at least one, mine. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dream to fly Posted April 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 In my short time owning a plane I have found 3. All in the same state: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted April 1, 2017 Report Share Posted April 1, 2017 We're fortunate here in Texas to have good Mooney service. I wouldn't hesitate to trust completely, a pre-buy from either Don Maxwell or Southwest Texas Aviation. They are the two I have experience with, but there are several others just as good. No need for a full annual if these guys are doing the pre-buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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