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Should I buy a Mooney (for business travel)?


Tater

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54 minutes ago, Yetti said:

If uber is in the towns you are visiting then that greatly simplifies things.  I have been tipping my toe in the water with uber and it is working out pretty well.

Used Uber when my wife and I were in Washington DC a year ago and it was very convenient. (I think it was almost always a Prius, but then we aren't Yetti's...

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You are getting a lot of good advice here.

My opinion, anything under 100 to 150 miles is better (except for the enjoyment) by driving.

Redo your financial calculations by assuming 50% of your trips won't work out. This is to cover weather and mechanical cancellations. If it works using these parameters, you are probably good, as you are likely to beat that %. If is close, and you enjoy flying, go for it. If it doesn't work, you would be doing it because you want to. And that is alright too.

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I retired 15 years ago but I used to work. I owned a manufacturing company and did a lot of selling, much of that with independent multi-line reps from New England to Florida - about 1/2 the country. I averaged 250 hours per year in a M20E for 11 years. I could be in West Palm, Boston, or Meigs in 4 hours or less  - on MY schedule. Including the time to get to the commercial airports, I could beat airline travel time and if I were going to an out of the way place, the beat was huge, probably saving an overnight stay. I seldom, almost never, was unable to meet a schedule.

I think you'll find that the flexibility will increase your business opportunities. It is really helpful to tell a customer that I can be there later today.

Of course you won't start out with the experience to make every trip in your Mooney by yourself. You'll opt to drive, which is what you're doing now, you might opt to take an instructor to build some weather time, particularly while you're working on your IR.

  

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We live in Austin and regularly go to Dallas to see family and friends, and for business. It's a 3 hour drive. Since getting the Mooney, my wife won't drive to Dallas period. 3 hours in a car in I35 traffic. Or 1 hour in the plane with the autopilot doing all the work?

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Common advice:  rent until your landings are consistently good, then change to your own plane (regardless of brand).

Other good advice:  get your medical, then start training. Look for a plane, by the time you find the plane, have a Pre Purchase Inspection and close, you'll be ready to begin training in it if you're not already finished.

Talk to your accountant, it may be possible to deduct your training.

Most importantly, fly safe! Have fun, but be safe . . .

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I also live in SoCal, I just went through this process last year of trying to figure out if flying would work for my business.  6 months into ownership of a 1967 M20F I don't know how to live without it.  It makes things too damn convenient.  The way I looked at it was that I can get more money, but I can't get more time. I took this week off of work to do the annual with my mechanic and dreading next week when I need to be in Santa Barbara, Vegas, and San Antonio all in the same week without my plane.

To answer your questions:

1. Will I actually save time?

I found there's a sweet spot that is about 200-600 miles where flying myself makes sense vs driving or a commercial flight.  If I can drive there myself in less than two hours then flying will actually take me more time to preflight the plane, fly there, deal with ground transportation, etc.  If it's more than 5 hours to fly myself there, then I will go commercial.  Example being my San Antonio trip this week I will take a commercial plane.

2. Cost per hour?

I've only owned for 6 months but so far I've spent $15k in fuel, maintenance, loan payment, hangar, accessories, etc  I've flown the plane about 100 hrs.  So $160/hr sounds about right to me.

3. Training in a Mooney.

I would never want to do to my Mooney what I did to the poor Cherokee 140, Cessna 150, 172, and 175B that I trained in.  Also I would recommend training in just one plane if you can.  While you can get insurance to fly a Mooney as a student, it's going to be expensive and you'll need to find a CFI that is willing to give you the high performance and complex endorsements.  I have 100 hrs in my M20F now and I think I'm starting to get OK at landings.

Don't worry about spending too much time on training.  Due to weather and other things it took me 90 hours before I passed my checkride.  Keep training until you are comfortable.  Once you get your PPL then it's time to start looking at planes.

4. Other things for n00bs.

You should look at flying yourself as an option.  If all the conditions are right, then YAY! you can fly yourself, but there are things like weather, maintenance, etc that will prevent you from flying.  Never put yourself in a situation where you have to use the plane in bad conditions and give into get-there-itis.  You always need a Plan B that you have no hesitation in executing.  If the trip is within 4 hrs then my Plan B is driving, otherwise it's Southwest.  Southwest is a great option for me because I can book the flight and cancel it at the last minute and not incur any cost other than that they have my money tied up as a credit for the next trip.  

Flying into a city with uber makes it so much easier.  Renting a car is something I try to avoid at all costs as it just adds time.

When you get your PPL then you think people are going to want to fly with you all the time, but the reality is that most of the time you're flying alone 90% of the time.  My wife and kids have gone with me exactly 1 time so far and they hated being cramped in the little plane.

I never really got used to turbulence, but what I do now is kind of ignore it.  I listen to podcasts while I fly (I mean while Mr. Autopilot flies) and kind of tune out the bumpiness.  Turbulence is one of those things that kind of makes or breaks flying.  For some reason if someone else is flying I don't care at all about it, but when I'm the one with the controls it kind of freaks me out.  I had a really bad experience early in my training that made me almost quit, but I learned that judicious use of whiskey can help you overcome those traumatic experiences.  Go finish your flight training before you commit to using a plane for your business.  Make sure that your flight instructor takes you on windy days where you're going to experience bumpiness.

As others have said, my customers think it's awesome when I fly in and always ask me questions about flying.  I had a customer call me once for help on a Saturday.  What would have had to wait until Monday and then been a 4 hr drive was a 1hr flight, fixed his problem in 10 minutes, and flew home.  That story spread like wildfire throughout that account.

I love my Mooney but if money were no object I'd buy a TBM 930 in a heartbeat.

Edited by SantosDumont
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I use mine for business.  See https://www.motiva-training.com/have-mooney-will-travel.  Inside 500 nm or so it is cheaper to fly yourself.  Outside of that it is cheaper to purchase an airfare.  

Never assume the weather will allow the flight.  Always be ready to leave the aircraft where it is and come back for it later, or wait till weather allows. Make strategic weather decisions, not tactical ones.

Don't plan on doing it in the winter or without an instrument ticket.  

Be careful not to cross the line regarding legal use of a non-commercial ticket.  Nothing that will put you in regulator crosshairs that looks like use "for hire or reward."  Gas, parking, pro-rated recurring costs, and demonstration of business purpose for every flight.  In 2012, 54% was for business, 82% in 2013, 87% in 2014, 67% in 2015, 72% last year.  Aircraft journey logs in Canada are a legal document.  It is called "use of personal aircraft for business travel" not "business use of personal aircraft".

Some clients like to fly if you offer.  Others have rules that prevent receipt of such a perk.

Good luck.  

 

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In addition to the great advice provided above, I will add my personal experience when I was asking the same question-to myself as there was no internet at the time.

I purchased an M20E before I took my first plane ride. I took an instructor to help fly the plane home. I lived in Minot, ND and planned to travel around the midwest and west coast. I could not obtain insurance on the plane to fly alone (unlicensed). Coverage was predicated on an instructor flying with me. So all my duel instruction was spent in the Mooney and all solo time/x-country and FAA check ride completed in a Cessna 150. My instructor had extensive Mooney experience. I liked the idea of learning to fly in a complex/retractable gear plane. Managing the prop and gear is all I know! Even when in the 150, I would "pretend" to put the gear up/down on every flight by moving a make-believe knob.  I had no issues landing or being overwhelmed with some additional controls in the Mooney. I completed my PPL in less than 1 month. Yes, I would fly every evening after work and the entire weekend-I could not get enough.

The M20E was a nice plane, but after becoming more familiar with flying , I wanted more out of my plane. I sold the M20E after only 4 months from the purchase date and bought a M20K (231) which was turbocharged. I wanted to travel higher/faster/further. I also found that I didn't want to just limit my travel to business. So, I started taking the family places. We loved the freedom. We could go places for a fraction of the cost of 4/5 (a small 3 child in the back seat) commercial tickets. It turned out to be a wonderful blessing that reached far beyond "just business". I did complete my IR immediately after my PPL. I did this training through a different instructor (Professional Instrument Courses-Iflyifr.com) in efforts to not perpetuate any bad habits. I completed the IR in 1 solid week of flying. Then it was practice, practice and practice. As my skill set grew so did the utility of my plane. Just because I had a PPL/IR with some experience did not make me a safe all weather pilot. Competency came with lots of study and practice. Know your personal/plane limits. With >4000 hrs and additional ratings I am still learning-and love it. I don't believe viewing a personal aircraft, you fly, as nothing more than a means of transportation (like a car) is healthy. You need to have a passion for flying! Passion will drive you to remain current/competent. If you don't have the passion, let someone else fly for you. Just my opinion.

I present my story to demonstrate the evolution of desire if you really enjoy flying. In retrospect, I would have started my flight training in a rental (pretending it had retractable gear) then purchased a Mooney that better fit my needs. Trust me...as you learn, the aviation world will open doors that are currently closed. You are asking the proper questions, but some things you will need to learn on your own...flying a plane! Buy your second plane first! It may cost a little more now, but you will save $$ in the end. As far as choosing a Mooney....Well, is there really any other choice when one considers total ownership cost, speed, safety and convenience?

 

 

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Wow! Thanks for all the great replies. I was hoping that maybe one or two people would chime in over a week or so.

I just finished reading through all the replies that have come in and I think that my questions have been addressed pretty well. But there were a few questions for me so I'll answer the ones I remember.

I'm based in Spokane, WA. Right now flights would be mostly to towns in Eastern WA and North Idaho and some flights to Portland, Seattle, and Eastern OR. There is great service on Alaska to PDX and SEA, but I'm usually headed to outlying areas, so getting through traffic to the burbs (my customers are factories) adds time and in many cases there is a regional airport closer to where I'm actually headed in the metro area.

So from everyone's comments so far, it sounds marginal that I will save time with my current itineraries. The two most common routes are both about 120 miles away but there is an airport 5 minutes from the final destination and both places have Uber service. Side note: I love Uber.

I'm working on expanding business into Western Montana. This will make for much longer travel distances but will also mean crossing the Rockies.

As far as cost effectiveness goes, I'm coming from the camp that my time is worth something. I work more than I want to but fortunately also make more money than I need, so if I can trade some of that money for some of that time, then great, if it makes travel more fun too, then awesome.

Someone asked about my 4 hours a week number. That is my conservative guess trying to factor in that I can't fly all the time (weather, etc.).

I'm hearing pretty clearly that I should figure out landings in a trainer instead of beating up a Mooney. Duly noted.

Thanks again for all the great input! This is a real help!



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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Wow! Thanks for all the great replies. I was hoping that maybe one or two people would chime in over a week or so.



And #1 reason to go Mooney? The community!

ps if you're near mountains look at the K models....



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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1 hour ago, Tater said:

Wow! Thanks for all the great replies. I was hoping that maybe one or two people would chime in over a week or so.

I just finished reading through all the replies that have come in and I think that my questions have been addressed pretty well. But there were a few questions for me so I'll answer the ones I remember.

I'm based in Spokane, WA. Right now flights would be mostly to towns in Eastern WA and North Idaho and some flights to Portland, Seattle, and Eastern OR. There is great service on Alaska to PDX and SEA, but I'm usually headed to outlying areas, so getting through traffic to the burbs (my customers are factories) adds time and in many cases there is a regional airport closer to where I'm actually headed in the metro area.

So from everyone's comments so far, it sounds marginal that I will save time with my current itineraries. The two most common routes are both about 120 miles away but there is an airport 5 minutes from the final destination and both places have Uber service. Side note: I love Uber.

I'm working on expanding business into Western Montana. This will make for much longer travel distances but will also mean crossing the Rockies.

As far as cost effectiveness goes, I'm coming from the camp that my time is worth something. I work more than I want to but fortunately also make more money than I need, so if I can trade some of that money for some of that time, then great, if it makes travel more fun too, then awesome.

Someone asked about my 4 hours a week number. That is my conservative guess trying to factor in that I can't fly all the time (weather, etc.).

I'm hearing pretty clearly that I should figure out landings in a trainer instead of beating up a Mooney. Duly noted.

Thanks again for all the great input! This is a real help!



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

As for me and FWIW , i prefer to fly for one hour then drive for six , even with all the culprits . 

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Regarding time: If you work like me, and it sounds like you do, you would be working on the airline while travelling enroute, similar to the drive. I tend to make quite a few phone calls in the vehicle  while driving ( bluetooth headset ). I sometimes even toy with the idea of getting an assistant just to drive me around and increase the amount of time I can respond to calls/emails/texts/issues, etc.

None of this is really practical when flying yourself. I tried the bluetooth in the Bose A20 for calls, but cell coverage is typically poor at altitude and non-existent in many of the areas I travel over.

Ultimately, I do choose the Mooney for the time savings from the security at the airports and that I can depart on MY schedule, rather than lingering around the airport for hours waiting for the return flight. All of this ultimately leads me to be home at a reasonable hour or not staying over night so I can spend more time with my family ( and on Mooneyspace ;) )

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2 hours ago, 201er said:

Get a Cirrus, it has a parachute :P

Pull the chute , fall in the middle of the highway , and get hit by a semi ! :D Or worse , fall in the middle of a schoolyard full of kids ! :(

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Hi there..

Ive flown much of your potential route...basically out of Spokane you will be dealing with some icing conditions in the winter,but you already know that.If you are flying into regional airports with fbo s than you prob can take advantage of crew cars for 4 hrs or less...so no rental car but you have to buy fuel.Figure on a two year training investment to get you thru the IR and enoughexperoence under your belt to safely make the trips.

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So here's a guy with moneys to spend, he wants to spend it on aviation, he wants to ultimately own his own airplane...  And here is a bunch of airplane owners trying to talk him out of it.

No wonder GA is in trouble. Are you all the same bunch trying to shut down the airport in Santa Monica? Geeees.....

All I'll say is that flying is the best thing I've spent money on in many years... and I spend a fair amount of it. 

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