Need Help

[Dream to fly]

Hello my name is Joe and I am new to this forum.  I have apparently screwed up really bad and am in search of help that may assist me in figuring out how to solve my dilemma.  I only ask that you don't degrade me I already know I screwed up.  Long story short: I spent almost two years searching for a M20F that had all the mods, spent stupid money getting a pre buy inspection (unfortunately I used the wrong AP).  Spent even more money with when break downs occurred.  Now fed up and close to 63K in the hole I have a 1967 M20F that has signs of corrosion and bad components.  My question is can a M20F be rebuilt, can it be disassembled and repaired.  I am an Auto Diesel repair shop owner and I love flying Mooneys.  I unfortunately hired the wrong people to pre buy and repair the plane.  Now I am having issues and my head is spinning with costs that are going to make me walk away.  I can't believe that this plane is junk but I researched the wrong areas of buying a plane.  Now after owning it I find out that Florida planes are bad for corrosion and buying from former AP/owner/pilots is not always a good thing.   I have a fuel selector valve leaking, I have control rod and inner skin corrosion, flap hydraulics leaking, brake master leaking, lower cowling cracks.  Every time I go to address an issue I find more wrong.  Is there anyone that has tackled a plane like this and ended up with a good reliable plane in the end?

[Hector]

The fuel selector valve leak, flap cylinder leak, and brake master leak are all fixable. You can order the O-ring kits from LASAR, or remove the parts and send it to them and they will rebuild it for you. The corrosion issues are more serious. If the corrosion on the control rods is light surface corrosion you might be able to clean off with Emory paper, alodine, prime and paint. You might need to post some pictures so we can see. It may be best at this point to have someone who is very knowledgeable about Mooneys take a look before you do anything else. Where are you?


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[Jim Peace]

Where is your plane now?

[KSMooniac]

Get somebody qualified to look at the corrosion first as that is the deal breaker. The rest of those issues aren't terrible.

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[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Joe.

Grab a cup of coffee, sit down, take it one step at a time...

MS has a lot of experience to share.

1) Every part of a Mooney can be rebuilt, overhauled or replaced.

2) The hard part is the economics.  Sometimes getting to the truth is the harder part.

3) We have several owners of M20Fs.  Some are the nicest in the fleet...

4) Learn to ask short detailed questions.  The answers are going to be kind of long...

5) Learn the search function.  Some questions are detailed already. No waiting...

6) expect to read... a lot.

7) find the M20Fs that have been completely rebuilt.

8) find the owners that have owned their F for decades.

9) find the owners that also run auto shops, if that helps we have a couple around here.

10) We have a truck shop guy that just built a home built plane while owning his M20K.

11) Find a Mooney Fly-in and meet some Mooney people.

12) very few Mooney's go to the scrap yard.

13) keep in mind we have some really good A&P/Owner/pilots around here.

14) we also have some MSC DOMs and people that have seen hangar fairies around...

15) there are a few thousand Mooney people around here, as we are coming up on our first decade or so together...

16) tell us about yourself... do you like working on your plane?

17) where are you located?

Stay positive.  It's not where you have been that is important.  It is where you are going that is important... 

Best regards,

-a-

Edited March 24, 2017 by carusoam

[DRAY]

Have you tried the Pietzch's in Minot?

[N201MKTurbo]

If you keep fixing the things that are wrong, eventually it will become reliable. The things you mention are normal for a neglected plane. 

Both Mooneys I have owned took about 4 years to become reliable. After that it will take you anywhere you want to go.

It sounds like you are a mechanical guy, find a mechanic that will work with you and let you fix things up. When you are not working by the hour, you can strip and repaint any part you take off. You can spend hours degreasing the underbelly that only you see. You can pull the whole interior, clean and repaint the floor and wing spar. Clean and repaint your wheel wells. 

When you do all this you will find those little things that need attention and learn a lot about your plane.

[cloud116]

I live in Bismarck and am familiar with most of the shops in the area. Send me a private message if you want to discuss any of them in detail. 

[cliffy]

OK take a deep breath and relax for a minute

Tell us what you have already fixed- short and sweet then-

list what you see wrong now with some detail on the corrosion issue.

Lots of help on here. lots of stuff you can do IF YOU WANT and know an A&P

willing to follow your work and sign you off on it. 

Give us some more details and just relax a little. 

[rbridges]

That's a good number of responses for a post that was made near midnight EST. I'm not the guy that will offer much help because I'm the guy that usually leans on others for help here. If no one can help you online, someone here will tell you who to ask in person.  Just do what the others have said.  Pictures help a great deal for gaining perspective. Sorry for your bad experience so far. 

[DXB]

Welcome Joe- I'm not hearing anything jn your post that condemns this bird to the trash heap.  Make sure a real Mooney expert looks at the wing spar and the steel cage after pulling the interior.  

You have some excellent advice posted above from a couple of these real experts who hang out here, so not much to add.

Hopefully in the end you'll end up with a really nice bird after a bit more pain.

[mike_elliott]

8 hours ago, Dream to fly said:

Florida planes are bad for corrosion and buying from former AP/owner/pilots is not always a good thing

DTF,

I am sorry you had such a bad experience. Your statement above is both true and false. Florida planes are not necessarily bad for corrosion at all. In fact, some of the best examples of Mooneys are in Florida. I have had my butt in well over 200 Mooneys from all over and can say this with some authority, While the high tumidity environment is conducive to corrosion, like it is in Al, LA, Houston, SC, etc, it is all about how the plane is cared for. The second part of your statement reveals the true identifier of a good plane or a bad one. Going forward for other Mooney wannabe owners, I recommend "prebuying" the existing and previous owner(s) as much as you do the plane. That will reveal much about the quality of care, attention to detail and maintenance philosophy the plane was exposed to. 

I owned an F Model for 16 years and kept it in FL for 3 of them. I found a hanger PRIOR to buying a house here, it is that important.

To answer your question, yes, a M20F can be disassembled and rebuilt. The sky is the limit. John Breda has done just that with his using a Mooney professional (Brian Kendrick). He now has arguably the finest F in the fleet, surplanting my old one, Glenns, Marauders, and a few other fine examples.

[Yetti]

They are 40-50 year old machines. They are all like this.  Create a maintenance program like you would a truck.

 I have a fuel selector valve leaking, - Easy couple hour fix.

I have control rod and inner skin corrosion,- Something to work through.

flap hydraulics leaking, - a day to fix

brake master leaking, easy couple hour fix - 3 orings

lower cowling cracks. -  Hmmm interesting - need pictures maybe a JPI cowl

 

[1964-M20E]

Joe

lot of good advice above

You say you are a shop owner I assume you are a mechanic as well so you are mechanically inclined can follow repair procedures, repair manuals and not afraid getting dirty.  You have more skill and desire that a vast majority of aircraft owners out there.  There are many things you can legally do as a pilot and owner without an A&P to look over your shoulder and sing off the log book.  Working with an A&P that understands your skills and desires will go along way to keeping you plane flying without running you to bankruptcy.

Most of the things you listed are not show stoppers.  corrosion is the biggest one and if it can be cleaned and treated it becomes a non issue.  However, if major parts need work it could get more involved.

 

good luck keep up posted use the search feature and ask questions there are a lot of good people here.

 

[Dream to fly]

Well I am absolutely flawed by all the positive responses,  so thank you!!!!  I have no given up and I just didn't know where else to turn and I hate venting on a keyboard but I had no other place to turn and my wife being the stable level headed one on this endeavor suggested searching for a club for answers.  Being a mechanic for 28 years and owning a shop I would think this is doable.  I actually caught myself this morning telling a customer what the problem to his deal was and for the first time put myself in his shoes and could only imagine the fear that was generated.  The repair, what is simple to me, and basically just time and expense in parts must have seemed like a death sentence to him.  I quickly retorted and explained it more completely.  That is what this plane is doing to me it is a road I haven't driven and the curves keep getting tighter.  I have made a call to LASAR and spoke to Robert who is awesome to talk to and very knowledgeable and spoke to a local painter who is willing to take a look.  So all hope is not lost.  I have decided if the spar and the cage are good I am going to rebuild it.  I can and will make it right and in the end I'll have more plane for less money that buying factory new.  This Forum is definitely a tool that I will use and for all the help I have received I hope I can repay it someway.  I have limited years in Aviation and am learning as fast as I can but I am pretty good in the Auto diesel marine world.

[RLCarter]

Coming from the motorcycle industry I half way enjoyed bringing my E back to life. I really don't think there will be a time when there isn't something to tinker with but at least it's a flying project now. MS is an awesome place for information, find an A&P/ IA that will work with you and get it done. Oh, welcome aboard. 

[cliffy]

For the most part, if you can put screw A into hole B and read English in the maintenance manual you'll do fine and we'll help

If you don't have a maintenance manual there are several ways to get an electronic copy.You will find that the "J" manual is the most informative and will probably serve you quite well for most everything. You can find it on line by google. Even though it might not be for an F it will show you most of what you need to learn (read) even before you get into the actual work. The factory has complete manuals for sale electronically (for a price).  Do yourself a favor and at least pull up a J manual and read about a couple of the issues you have. You'll find it might not be that difficult for you to comprehend how to fix it. That being said, most of what you will be doing does require an A&P to sign off the work so you will need to find one that will work with you and approve your work. 

[Browncbr1]

59 minutes ago, Dream to fly said:

Well I am absolutely flawed by all the positive responses,  so thank you!!!!  I have no given up and I just didn't know where else to turn and I hate venting on a keyboard but I had no other place to turn and my wife being the stable level headed one on this endeavor suggested searching for a club for answers.  Being a mechanic for 28 years and owning a shop I would think this is doable.  I actually caught myself this morning telling a customer what the problem to his deal was and for the first time put myself in his shoes and could only imagine the fear that was generated.  The repair, what is simple to me, and basically just time and expense in parts must have seemed like a death sentence to him.  I quickly retorted and explained it more completely.  That is what this plane is doing to me it is a road I haven't driven and the curves keep getting tighter.  I have made a call to LASAR and spoke to Robert who is awesome to talk to and very knowledgeable and spoke to a local painter who is willing to take a look.  So all hope is not lost.  I have decided if the spar and the cage are good I am going to rebuild it.  I can and will make it right and in the end I'll have more plane for less money that buying factory new.  This Forum is definitely a tool that I will use and for all the help I have received I hope I can repay it someway.  I have limited years in Aviation and am learning as fast as I can but I am pretty good in the Auto diesel marine world.

James 1:2-4 will tell you all you need to know about how to proceed.  You're on the right path.

[Yetti]

Annnnndd these planes are far less complex than anything on the road today.   A #2 phillips and a flat blade along with a 3/8 wrench and a couple of others could take the whole plane apart.

Start building trust with an A&P and you will find that these things are simple as the automobiles of the same era.

create a plane

execute the plan