Pressurized Business Aircraft Pro Formas

[Seth]

1 hour ago, M20F said:

It is a lot easier to determine what you want your annual operating expense (CAPEX, fuel, insurance, etc.) to be per flight hour and work backwards to a plane than it is to figure out planes forward.  

The aircraft you list have a huge differing cost structure but I don't see any kind of guidance to what the budget is.

Odds are a fractional is probably going to be a lot better deal if it is a purely financial decision.  

We are still determining the budget.  I need to know that my assumptions are correct for the cabin and mission requirements.  Also, it seems the acquisition budget may be higher than originally expected.  I'm also not so sure about the fractional programs being less for the amount do travel this group does as well as that in a short time, I would be our pilot.

-Seth

[KLRDMD]

On 3/22/2017 at 0:59 PM, peevee said:

everyone is talking about fuel burn. no one has mentioned how costly twin insurance is,

Insurance for a multi-engine is not expensive with a reasonable amount of multi-time. Insurance on my last three twins was the same percent hull value of my singles. Insurance on a 100k twin was the same as a $100k single engine airplane.

[KLRDMD]

On 3/22/2017 at 0:38 PM, peevee said:

The fact that insurance for an individual owner hasn't been mentioned once leads me to believe not many have any twin experience. Last time I requested a quote for a 310 it was 13k a year.

Insurance on my last twin, which happened to be pressurized too was a little over $2,000/yr.

[peevee]

16 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

Insurance on my last twin, which happened to be pressurized too was a little over $2,000/yr.

That's not bad. Time to twin shop maybe.

[M20F]

1 hour ago, peevee said:

That's not bad. Time to twin shop maybe.

You should ask how many ME hours he has in order to get an equivalent rate.  It only takes me 1500 ME with 25 in type to get equivalent to my F in a C320.

Twins are fun but wildly impractical in almost every way compared to a single.   

[peevee]

58 minutes ago, M20F said:

You should ask how many ME hours he has in order to get an equivalent rate.  It only takes me 1500 ME with 25 in type to get equivalent to my F in a C320.

Twins are fun but wildly impractical in almost every way compared to a single.   

Nothing about ga is practical 

[KLRDMD]

5 hours ago, M20F said:

You should ask how many ME hours he has in order to get an equivalent rate.  It only takes me 1500 ME with 25 in type to get equivalent to my F in a C320.

I have 600 hours multi and had about 500 hours multi when I got that rate. My first twin, with essentially zero multi hours was expensive. After I got 100 or so multi hours, the rates came down significantly. So, pay a high premium for a year, then reasonable premiums afterwards. It is the same as moving into a Mooney from a typical rental. The first year insurance is high, then after 100 hours make and model it is reasonable.

[Seth]

On 3/22/2017 at 4:59 PM, Shadrach said:

This mission says C441 to me. If you're considering a King Air 200, you ought to be looking at Conquests as well.  The flight department across from my hangar currently operates 3 of them.  They have traded in and out of other twins, but have settled on the 441.  They regularly fly them at 35,000.  I have seen them do Las Vegas to Hagerstown MD non-stop. Good payload. Faster than a King Air 200 on less fuel. It's a tight market so resale should be easy.  Looking at the performance, It's hard to see how one would justify a light business jet.

The 441 is in the conversation.  

Does anyone have any personal experience?  

I'm going to have to visit Hagerstown to chat with the flight department you mentioned.

-Seth

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, Seth said:

The 441 is in the conversation.  

Does anyone have any personal experience?  

I'm going to have to visit Hagerstown to chat with the flight department you mentioned.

-Seth

I've not been ot to the drome in a week. I know their former DOM. I'll reach out to him tomorrow. I am flying to Lancaster on Friday, if anyone is home at the flight dept, I'll stop in.

[thinwing]

On 3/22/2017 at 10:44 AM, AndyFromCB said:

Now, that's not really a fair comparison, is it? Your fly an aircraft that's about as efficient as it gets ;-)

But if you're going to burn 50gph of Avgas and still fly a cramped cabin like Dukes, you might as well get an Aerostar and go 240knots instead of 210 in the Duke.

These aircraft just make no sense anymore other than price of entry. 50gph of Avgas equals to 75gph of Jet A. And at $100 an hour per side in engine reserves, you're really not that far from PT6, as most small block PT6 run about $100 an hour to overhaul as well and have very little maintenance in between vs 25 hour oil changes on the Duke.

However, I will give it to the Duke as the best looking aircraft to ever come from B,C,M or P. It just looks fast sitting on the ground.

Oh the Duke was really designed by the marketing dept...the engineers had no say!

[thinwing]

On 3/25/2017 at 3:40 PM, KLRDMD said:

Insurance on my last twin, which happened to be pressurized too was a little over $2,000/yr.

That's about what I paid for my Baron...with 1200 hrs in type