Falling Leaf

[Guitarmaster]

Has anybody done this in their Mooney?

 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

 

[midlifeflyer]

Not yet. Thanks for the reminder I need to try it. 

[wpbarnar]

Not in a Mooney, I play in another airplane.

What is your definition of a Falling Leaf?  In the aerobatic community,  a Falling Leaf is performed by stalling and intentionally inducing rotation with rudder.  As rotation develops in one direction it is stopped and started in the opposite direction with opposite rudder.   This is repeated to over and over.   Basically an oscillating spin with rotation limited to 1/8- 1/4 turns.   Depending on the aircraft a fair amount of roll is induced every time the rotation is stopped and direction changed.

Bill

 

[midlifeflyer]

16 minutes ago, wpbarnar said:

Not in a Mooney, I play in another airplane.

What is your definition of a Falling Leaf?  In the aerobatic community,  a Falling Leaf is performed by stalling and intentionally inducing rotation with rudder.  As rotation develops in one direction it is stopped and started in the opposite direction with opposite rudder.   This is repeated to over and over.   Basically an oscillating spin with rotation limited to 1/8- 1/4 turns.   Depending on the aircraft a fair amount of roll is induced every time the rotation is stopped and direction changed.

Bill

 

In the non-aerobatic community, a falling leaf is performed by stalling power off  and preventing recovery by holding the stick full back. Rudder is used to maintain coordination throughout so no spin takes place. In most singles (I've done them in various  Cessnas, Pipers, Diamonds and Cirruses (Cirri?) the result is a bobbing of the nose as the airplane repeatedly tries to recover itself.

There is a pretty good description of the maneuvers and its benefits in a recent BoldMethod post. 

http://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/maneuvers/falling-leaf-stall/

 

[FloridaMan]

Yes, both in power-off and under full-power with a qualified instructor. Mooneys have gentle stall characteristics but can be unforgiving if you're delayed in applying rudder input. I noticed that performing stalls under full power at around 6000MSL that you naturally have to put in a shit ton of right rudder as you approach your stall attitude. If you don't know how to use your rudder and are just pulling back, I could see the plane having enough adverse yaw to throw it abruptly into a spin to the left. In performing "falling-leaf" stalls under full power, the plane yaws hard left and right, but is possible to keep under control. In my plane, accelerated stalls seem to return the plane automatically to wings level when breaking. 

It is absolutely imperative to look outside and have some visual reference for yaw when performing a stall. Pick a cloud or a terrain feature and use the rudder to keep it in the same location left/right in the windscreen. If you are not comfortable doing this, make sure you have a qualified instructor with you. 

Edited March 19, 2017 by Antares

[RobertGary1]

No. The poh says stalls should only be entered from corridated light. I used to do it with students in the decathlon though. Originally this was used instead of slips to lose altitude until spins were well understood  I believe this is covered in the mandatory read "Stick and Rudder"  

-Robert

[carusoam]

Robert,

Siri has done her re-spelling trick on your post...

Coordinated flight became something different.

 

As for the falling leaf technique of losing altitude...  Using the Microsoft flight (MSFS) can simulate the rough aspects of the maneuver...

- Slow flight

- high descent speed

- it doesn't simulate the stall that I can tell.

- it won't spin either...

best regards,

-a-

Edited March 19, 2017 by carusoam

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

No. The poh says stalls should only be entered from corridated light. I used to do it with students in the decathlon though. Originally this was used instead of slips to lose altitude until spins were well understood  I believe this is covered in the mandatory read "Stick and Rudder"  

-Robert

Automatic (nis)spelling aside, that's true. But, whatever people doing aerobatics might do, the falling leaf stall we are discussing is coordinated flight. That's the whole idea - maintain coordinated flight throughout the maneuver.

[RobertGary1]

4 hours ago, carusoam said:

Robert,

Siri has done her re-spelling trick on your post...

Coordinated flight became something different.

 

As for the falling leaf technique of losing altitude...  Using the Microsoft flight (MSFS) can simulate the rough aspects of the maneuver...

- Slow flight

- high descent speed

- it doesn't simulate the stall that I can tell.

- it won't spin either...

best regards,

-a-

The falling technique as it was originally taught served the same purpose as a slip but was mush more effective. Hold the plane in a stall and kick the rudder back and forth.  The incept spins produces a very high rate of decent. From the ground you see the plane yawing back and forth in a mostly flat attitude which looks a lot like a leaf falling from a free. 

As a general teaching technique the FAA recommends against it because they want pilots to develop a reflexive response to recover from a stall  

-Robert 

Edited March 19, 2017 by RobertGary1

[Roger O]

Isn't this a sure fire way to shock cool the engine?

[Bob_Belville]

39 minutes ago, Sherman18 said:

Isn't this a sure fire way to shock cool the engine?

I would not think so. The "cooling" air would not be very great since the airspeed is very low. Shock cooling is achieved by pulling the power when the engine is at cruise temps and pushing the nose down increasing the cooling air.

[carusoam]

If shock cooling were to actually exist, It would occur...

1) at Really high airspeeds.

2) in Really cold air temps.

3) In Really dense air.  Like lower altitudes have.

 

Falling like a leaf is missing at least the high airspeed.

Or did you mean this... !?

best regards,

-a-

[RobertGary1]

55 minutes ago, carusoam said:

If shock cooling were to actually exist, It would occur...

1) at Really high airspeeds.

2) in Really cold air temps.

3) In Really dense air.  Like lower altitudes have.

 

Falling like a leaf is missing at least the high airspeed.

Or did you mean this... !?

best regards,

-a-

Never got shock cooling in the Decathlon pulling power to idle coming around a loop pointing directly at the ground.