Any Opinions

[GaryP1007]

http://m.allamericanaircraft.com/List/Aircraft/ForSale/17516671

Been waiting to see someone ask about this but havent seen anything.  Looks pretty sweet to my eye but im a year away from buying.

[Ben E.]

I was looking at that plane.  On the surface it looks real nice.  But if you take a look at the engine log, the engine has been pulled and dismantled something like 5 times since the last major overhaul.  The crankshaft had a loose plug, there was a top overhaul, I believe there was a prop strike, and then one or two more events that weren't clear.  When I see that I see a trouble engine.  It may be perfectly fine, but it also may be ongoing expensive maintenance.  I like to avoid that type of thing if possible.

 

[gsengle]

What's the reasonable blue book if you assumed a run out engine? I personally like buying high time and putting in a new engine if I'm keeping a plane a while...


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[Ben E.]

I don't know much about blue book but I would personally expect to pay no more than $105k for that plane if it had a trouble free low time engine. Considering that an overhaul costs about $30k then I'd value the plane around $75k.


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[Ben E.]

I have to imagine that you will be in the buyer's market for a while if your own personal price evaluation methodology is 30 percent below All American's.  In all sincerity, I will be very interested in seeing what you find. 

What do you think that plane with a runout engine would cost (which was the question)? All American's price isn't based on a runout engine. Also I assume All American expects that they won't get asking price, so I wouldn't take their price as their valuation. Lastly, planes are cheaper when you buy them from the owner without a middleman marking it up.


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[Ben E.]

Not to mention, if the plane was worth that much then it wouldn't have been on the market so long.


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[Ben E.]

I don't think the plane is literally worth $75k. The OP asked what would the value be as a runout and that's where I came up with $75k. That's conservative too. Maybe it's $85k as a runout. I don't have enough information to determine whether it's a runout and with regards to my own consideration of this plane in the recent past, I wasn't willing to spend the money to make that determination because it's cheaper to pursue a plane with less question marks. Those question marks make the valuation suspect to me. That's my own personal opinion and like I said, this may be a great plane at a standard reduction of the asking price.


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[carusoam]

My opinion is the site being viewed the way the posted link is doesn't have all the details... until you click all over it.

try this link...

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/17516671/1983-mooney-m20j-201?dlr=1&pcid=17527&if=1

Run-out Js don't Typically have working WAAS Garmin gps connected to an AP with a GPSS. Or stormscopes or engine monitors or updated transponders or HSIs or speed brakes or FF systems...

Bottom level of airworthy Js comes with very little at 75AMU.

- airframe 50AMU

- paint 10AMU

- interior 10AMU

- engine 20AMU

- instrument panel 50 AMU

Also, there seems to be two planes posted on Controller with very similar paint jobs...

The coolest part about David and Jimmy is they don't mind educating people interested in Mooneys.

You have to do your own math and check to see if all this stuff is working properly yourself because you should protect your wallet when buying used machines.

PPIs are designe to protect your wallet....

For fun, call David and talk Mooneys. I did that once... a decade later I  was back and bought the O at AAA...

Run out planes are not the specialty of AAA.  Mostly because the owners of run-out planes are not looking to pay for help to sell their plane.  Those planes sell based on lowest price...

owning the low end of the J ladder is probably not going to be an enjoyable experience without being a mechanic.  Better to get a higher end F or other Mooney.

There is a thread documenting an MSer that was getting by with the bottom rung of the J ladder. A painful experience. Find the f the FAA thread...

pp thoughts only. Not a plane sales guy...

Best regards,

-a-

Edited March 18, 2017 by carusoam

[Godfather]

Not sure how this listing is considered to have a run out engine.  Opened a few times...yes, gear up landing...yes, but IMO those are some top flight names associated with the engine work.  Personally I'd buy the plane for the right price after an exhaustive prebuy by a good shop. Then I'd fly the thing like it had a newly overhauled engine and not look back.  

One thing that makes me smile is the additional 500 ish hrs after the gear up. I hope the same owner continued to fly it as some would be scared out of the plane at that point. He did however put a very large GUMP sign in his main scan

Edited March 18, 2017 by Godfather

[gsengle]

It isn't, but someone said buried in the logs were lots of engine issues, so I simply suggested to consider whether it was a decent deal if instead you looked at it as if it had a run out engine, as the rest of it is very attractive...


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