ATC privatization

[carusoam]

1) repatriation of corporate profits

2) corporate tax relief

3) border wall, illegal imigrants.

4) privatization of ATC.

5) repealing replacing Obamacare.

The government seems to be able to work on one proeject at a time. What order of priority do you think this fits in...?

This list won't be completed in the time allowed before the midterm elections is upon us.

I Watched a good part of the discussion regarding privatization of ATC that was broadcast on television.  The part about modernizing some of the systems sounded a lot like the post office 20 years ago...

Our discussions about some of the screens in traffic control towers.  Some of the archaic methods of keeping track of slips of paper are 60’s beautiful!

Changes are coming.  'Privatization' is a fancy name for it.  Continue to keep both eyes open...

computers and robots and machines vs. human labor in another format...

Best regards,

-a-

Edited June 6, 2017 by carusoam

[kpaul]

3 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

Thank you matey, i was about to make the same point.  France, Germany are HUGE, Norway top to bottom is longer than most usa states, etc.   Please if you are going to quote Europe, please look at a map first chaps.  Thanks.  

A map like this?

[carusoam]

Great Brittain doesn't look so great when you overlay the maps...

Good morning,

-a-

[carusoam]

Siri is in charge of my spelling... I started with Britton....

Mrs. Garmin does My navigating... re-calculating...with an annoyed response...

Alexa hasn't found a purpose yet... Ask her to tell a joke.

Best regards,

-a-

Edited June 6, 2017 by carusoam

[Danb]

2 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

PMSL. 

Made my day.  The weather here has gone from lovely summer blue skies and fluffy clouds to low clouds and heavy rain in the space of a few hours.  Grey and miserable again.   

Sounds like the great state of Delaware circa 2017!

[chrisk]

4 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

Um yes, but you have not included, Norway, Sweden, Finland, etc.  Small point but as i said before please look at a map.   

No problem, Norway, Finland, and Sweden are dwarfed by the state of Alaska, which is larger than all 3 combined.    --As for overlaying maps, there is a bit of a projection issue if latitude is not maintained.  Square miles is probably the best comparison. 

But if you really want big, (and a free country), look at Canada too.  It 3.855 million square miles.   The US is 3.797 million square miles.  --So, combined about 7.6 million square miles that speaks English (even Quebec) and can be flown over without to much bureaucracy.   Europe as a continent is 3.9 Million square miles, but only 1.7 million square miles is in the EU, as places like Russia are not included.

 

[gsengle]

The reality is the Us dwarfs them all in the measure that matters, aircraft movements....


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[co2bruce]

IMHO the postal service is loosing money because you can't move a letter across the country for .46  If they would charge (like every other private, unsubsidized business) what it actually cost plus a small profit they would not be in the hole. It's the governments remaining regulations on them that keeps them down. Look at what UPS and FEDEX charge to move an envelope across the country in 2-3 days. Post office is forced to provide service to every address, 6 times a week at an affordable price for all Americans. 

[gsengle]

Also another voice:

http://aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2017/june/05/aopa-concerned-about-trumps-atc-plan


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[Bob_Belville]

7 minutes ago, co2bruce said:

IMHO the postal service is loosing money because you can't move a letter across the country for .46  If they would charge (like every other private, unsubsidized business) what it actually cost plus a small profit they would not be in the hole. It's the governments remaining regulations on them that keeps them down. Look at what UPS and FEDEX charge to move an envelope across the country in 2-3 days. Post office is forced to provide service to every address, 6 times a week at an affordable price for all Americans. 

Yes and even hard line capitalists, like me, recognizes that there is a public service aspect of the PO that is worth spending from the common purse.

[Andy95W]

The thing that concerns me from a USPS vs. ATC comparison is that nearly every American uses the Post Office, but very few the ATC system.  If the Post Office loses money but stamps stay .46, everyone is happy.  If ATC loses money, the cry will go out to raise the fees on those "rich airplane owners."

[Tom]

 

19 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

Once the ATS is privatized, market forces, not "equal access" will rule.

Just like the big FBOs?
There are no market forces in a monopoly.

17 hours ago, scottnelson903 said:

Privatization does not mean the government washes their hands and walks away. They regulate it and assess it constantly. If u doubt that, go look at the nuclear weapons industry. It's privatized with government oversight. This type of critical industry (aviation) will be held to tight oversight. The private side is not making millions. Their pay reward is based on good performance. Government employees could not accomplish what the private side is accomplishing with this same budget.

This position neglects to appreciate regulatory/deep capture, diseconomies of scale, or really the history of large organizations of any type worldwide--in particular government contracts.  ATC is a critical infrastructure item that will be subsidized to any dollar amount necessary to keep it up.  And as the bloat increases, so too will the fractional user fee contributions.

7 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

You have to remember where the "Great" bit came from.....Rebuilt itself from Bankruptcy to become the 5th largest economy in the world...

 

18 hours ago, gsengle said:

Alas, I don't think socialism is what gave us all the great airports and schools and businesses and technology

I'm reminded of the guy down the street with a $40,000/year job bragging about his big house, quad-cab truck, and his flat screen TV.

 

 

 

[gsengle]

Chart those as % of GDP to to do otherwise is very misleading.

Also the us govt uses archaic accounting system, you don't capitalize anything.


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[Bob_Belville]

31 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

The thing that concerns me from a USPS vs. ATC comparison is that nearly every American uses the Post Office, but very few the ATC system.  If the Post Office loses money but stamps stay .46, everyone is happy.  If ATC loses money, the cry will go out to raise the fees on those "rich airplane owners."

Everyone who ever boards an airliner or sends a kid to school out of state or gets a package thorough FedEx uses ATC. That ain't everybody but it must be 99% of those who actually pay taxes. We's all in the same (flying) boat so let's stop whacking the other guys manning oars.

[Tom]

41 minutes ago, gsengle said:

Chart those as % of GDP to to do otherwise is very misleading.
Also the us govt uses archaic accounting capitalize anything.

 

Any GDP created by loans (e.g. foreign holding of US assets) that we have no logical way of being able to pay back shouldn't be counted as GDP in my book. 

 

If GDP means "increase in transfer of US property to foreign interests" then yes, the GDP has kept up with the debt.  GDP intrinsically becomes increasingly proportionate to the loans that props up the activity afforded by the funny money.    

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said:

Everyone who ever boards an airliner or sends a kid to school out of state or gets a package thorough FedEx uses ATC. That ain't everybody but it must be 99% of those who actually pay taxes. We's all in the same (flying) boat so let's stop whacking the other guys manning oars.

Sorry, Bob, you lost me on your last sentence.  Please re-read my post- when was I "whacking the other guys manning oars"?  I expressed a concern that reasonable costs could climb if the privatized system lost money.

I agree that 99% of Americans do use ATC services- but I truly doubt that they see it that way, since it is all rolled into their airline ticket or FedEx price.  AOPA has mentioned this repeatedly over the years with regard to corporate aviation or personal business jets- they are seen as having deep pockets and not paying their fair share (although they do from the fuel tax.). And you and I, with our modest 50 year old airplanes, are seen the same way by the rest of America- rich guys with deep pockets who own personal airplanes.

[flyboy0681]

20 hours ago, gsengle said:

 

Europe isn't that small! And I can cross six states in 30 mins from where I'm based....


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Not sure how you can say that. Can you tell the class how many countries you would fly over when traveling from Munich to Zagreb?

[gsengle]

Not sure how you can say that. Can you tell the class how many countries you would fly over when traveling from Munich to Zagreb?

A couple. The point is it's denser airspace for the most part too.


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[flyboy0681]

Just now, gsengle said:

 

A couple. The point is it's denser airspace for the most part too.

 

 

More than a couple, Germany, Austria, Slovenia and Croatia.

[gsengle]

That's a couple. Ich wohnte in Deutschland, du?


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[flyboy0681]

Just now, gsengle said:

That's a couple. Ich wohnte in Deutschland, du?


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How about flying from Amsterdam to Luxembourg? Another four, and that's only 200 miles.

[flyboy0681]

Just now, Hyett6420 said:

Yep but one of those is Belgium and you can blink and miss that one.  It was designed to stop wars, hmmm failed there me thinks.  Or we could do this.....

EGKB to Sumburgh to Faroes to Iceland.  I THINK thats four countries, amd a hell of a lot of water.   

My point all along was how short some of the distances are over there.

And I may be hitting you up for a ride Andrew when I'm in London next Spring so I can verify it myself.

[Tom]

Just now, flyboy0681 said:

My point all along was how short some of the distances are over there.

And I may be hitting you up for a ride Andrew when I'm in London next Spring so I can verify it myself.

Now that is funny.  Lol indeed.

[HRM]

9 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

Oh and there is only one T in Britain.  

We invented the Autopilot 

[flyboy0681]

11 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

No problem at all, we may have all drowned by then if today's rain doesn't stop.   

Same here in South Florida, it's been raining steadily for the past three days with no end in sight.