Altitude Preselect Retrofit

[milotron]

Anybody here add a KEA 346 altimeter and KAS 297 to their King autopilot equipped aircraft?  Parts are around, and seem somewhat reasonable.

Can't find schematics or an install manual for the KFC200 system though, so not sure how much wiring is required.

Any other options to add VS and alt preset without holding down the up/down trim switch?

This certainly falls in the 'nice to have' category in terms of upgrades but had this feature on the KAP140 equipped plane I was running last time and it was a nice feature to have.

[gsxrpilot]

Since you have the KFC200, there is an Aspen upgrade that will give you the altitude pre-select. But probably not the cheapest way to get there.

[kortopates]

35 minutes ago, milotron said:

Anybody here add a KEA 346 altimeter and KAS 297 to their King autopilot equipped aircraft?  Parts are around, and seem somewhat reasonable.

Can't find schematics or an install manual for the KFC200 system though, so not sure how much wiring is required.

Any other options to add VS and alt preset without holding down the up/down trim switch?

This certainly falls in the 'nice to have' category in terms of upgrades but had this feature on the KAP140 equipped plane I was running last time and it was a nice feature to have.

I think you search MS you'll see a few post from others that this gets very expensive too add. I know I considered it 15 years ago and decided it was too expensive then. These days you are much better off just updating to the G500 with GAD-43E since it will provide the same functionality enhancements and do a much better job getting you much more value for the $. 

[kortopates]

12 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Since you have the KFC200, there is an Aspen upgrade that will give you the altitude pre-select. But probably not the cheapest way to get there.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think the Aspen EA100 adds any AP functionality that the AP doesn't already have unless you count GPSS. It doesn't even add Flight Director functionality to AP that don't already have it. You'll still have altitude hold and attitude hold, but not Alt Pre-select which is an altitude to climb or descent too. The Garmin GAD-43E is as close as you can get to transforming your AP to the functionality of their GFC-700 AP.

Edit:

Ah, I stand corrected. Aspen offers a separate add on for Altitude Preselect but only for the KFC200 AP and for another $1500 on top of the EA100 ($2800).

Edited March 5, 2017 by kortopates

[gsxrpilot]

20 minutes ago, kortopates said:

I think you search MS you'll see a few post from others that this gets very expensive too add. I know I considered it 15 years ago and decided it was too expensive then. These days you are much better off just updating to the G500 with GAD-43E since it will provide the same functionality enhancements and do a much better job getting you much more value for the $. 

This is why when I was shopping for a 252, it had to have the altitude preselect already installed with the KFC150. I knew upgrading to get it would be prohibitively expensive.

[gsengle]

My avionics shop called it "one more thing to break", and dissuaded me from going down that path, for what it's worth... this isn't very modern gear...


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[Emmet]

On the KFC200 it will give you only altitude preselect no VS select. VS select is only available on the KFC 150 and other AP models. The box that adds altitude hold for the Aspen technically only automates the push on the alt button of the AP.

[jlunseth]

I looked at this.  The barrel altimeter you have to add is in the 10-12k range.  If that is "reasonable" to you, then go for it.

[PTK]

I thought about this as well for my KFC150. It would give me vs and alt preselect. But I decided against it for two reasons: It's not a big deal to set up a climb or descent and push the alt button when it gets there. Also I will be installing a GAD43E hopefully this year along with whatever upgraded rendition to the G500 Garmin has in store. The G500 is due for something new so I'm waiting anxiously!

[carusoam]

With all the upgrades to Aspen and g500, the parts must be available at decent prices.  The add-on boxes are detailed in the user manuals from BK.

The KAP150 (and above) has climb rate settings in 100fpm increments.  An Alt preset setting is a nice way to keep from busting altitude during a climb.

yeah, it would be great if the brain never got distracted.....

For the NA power plant on a long climb, the VS changes with MP, leveling off without missing a beat requires strong cognitive multitasking skills and a good physical reminder (plan B).

On a nice chilly day, a climb rate that exceeds 2k' per minute, you can easily miss the target altitude by a few hundred feet...

note Plan B: I put my hand on the top of instrument panel while climbing to a target altitude.  This is an uncomfortable physical reminder to keep scanning.  Do not remove hand from the panel until the altitude target is achieved...  (sometimes the hand tires and wants to come down on its own.  Don't let it...)

It's tough being human...  

Best regards,

-a-

Peter is visibly veering away from the Rolex watch/ BK of yesteryear, and gently gravitating towards the Casio/BigG of tomorrow...  G500+ ???  

Edited March 5, 2017 by carusoam

[milotron]

Thanks for the input. I have been seeing used parts around for $8k for the pair, but still without install. It sounds like more potential for issues also as I don't like the idea of monkeying around with the existing KFC200 especially considering that mine seems to work fine now. The various modes that 'ALT' works in, along with the trim button get me most of the way there with a little additional monitoring.

A G500 or Aspen panel is in the 5 year plan, and that sounds like it takes care of most of this upgrade, including GPS steering which is another wish list item.  

There was only so much that I could expect for a K in my price range, but am still very happy with what I have. There is still always the urge to add more features, albeit with the added burden or risk of failure.

[gsxrpilot]

14 minutes ago, milotron said:

Thanks for the input. I have been seeing used parts around for $8k for the pair, but still without install. It sounds like more potential for issues also as I don't like the idea of monkeying around with the existing KFC200 especially considering that mine seems to work fine now. The various modes that 'ALT' works in, along with the trim button get me most of the way there with a little additional monitoring.

A G500 or Aspen panel is in the 5 year plan, and that sounds like it takes care of most of this upgrade, including GPS steering which is another wish list item.  

There was only so much that I could expect for a K in my price range, but am still very happy with what I have. There is still always the urge to add more features, albeit with the added burden or risk of failure.

The good news is, that you're already flying arguably the best airplane Mooney ever made. So it's a good platform on which to build. Over time, you can turn it into the airplane you want.

[carusoam]

At 8amu for the add on boxes, there isn't a huge desire to go in that direction...

Adjusting the VS or attitude is available through the KAP and KFC.  Less precise, but still adequate...

The only thing being added is an automated button push for ALT... to avoid an altitude bust while climbing.

There are a few warning systems for the arrival at altitude including one recently advertised here for an iPad app...

8amu thrown in an Aspen has the ability to add a ton of useful air data computing power... including the automated alt button push...

See if Marauder's Aspen experience includes automated alt level off...  he has posted a few videos on YouTube.  He doesn't have a BK AP though...

Best regards,

-a-

[Marcopolo]

I am in the process of addng Alt pre-select and GPSS to my K's KFC200 right now, along with ADS-B

 

  KEA-130A = 1 AMU

  KAS-297B = .8 AMU

  DAC GDC31 = 1.2 AMU

 Installation, paired with Lynx NGT-9000 and GNS530w is 3-4 AMU

 

The addition of the altitude pre-select to my KFC200 will only give me the 1000' to altitude alert (climbing or descending), and automatic level off once at the preset altitude.

 

Ron

[milotron]

9 hours ago, Marcopolo said:

I am in the process of addng Alt pre-select and GPSS to my K's KFC200 right now, along with ADS-B

 

  KEA-130A = 1 AMU

  KAS-297B = .8 AMU

  DAC GDC31 = 1.2 AMU

 Installation, paired with Lynx NGT-9000 and GNS530w is 3-4 AMU

 

The addition of the altitude pre-select to my KFC200 will only give me the 1000' to altitude alert (climbing or descending), and automatic level off once at the preset altitude.

 

Ron

So you are installing the GPS and Lynx at the same time? Just to be clear there is no VS setting, just ALT preselect, alert and levelling?

 

BTW, I am more of an Omega guy myself. Had a G1000 in my DA40, and kind of prefer the steam gauges, to be honest. G1000 wasn't even WAAS....my G430W in the K has gives me more capability, but not as flashy.

[Marcopolo]

Correct, No vertical speed coupling, set the auto pilot trim to climb or descend and I will get the 1k alert and then auto level at pre-selected altitude.  That' the best the KFC200 will offer as far as I'm aware.

 

Ron

[gsxrpilot]

This is good to know. I always assumed the KFC200 would be more advanced in this area than my KFC150. But I've got the vertical speed setting as well as the altitude select and capture.

[milotron]

Thanks Ron, I didn't know this. Paul, same thing. I was expecting that adding those components would give functionality similar to the KAP140 with VS mode as as well as alt preselect.

I am just as well to hold down the up/down rocker to get the VS at 800fpm that is does now.

 

Maybe the Aspen and G500 give more functionality, but lots more $$.

 

Mantra...be happy with what you have....be happy with what you have....

 

iain

[kortopates]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

This is good to know. I always assumed the KFC200 would be more advanced in this area than my KFC150. But I've got the vertical speed setting as well as the altitude select and capture.

The other way around, the model numbers are confusing since KFC200 pre-dates the KFC150. The KFC150 evolved from the 200, then the 150 was followed by the digital 225 - which is the ideal one to have but needs a newer model Mooney to get.