thoma015 Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Hello everyone, I have been searching for a airplane that will fit a new profile im about to have. Currently I own a share of a 172 but I only use it to fly locally or 2 hrs hops. I am moving to Oklahoma City and both my wife's family and mine live in south Alabama...roughly a ~600NM trip. We have a 7 month old baby and 2 70-80 dogs. Im looking for something faster than the 172 that will take all of us without having to drive 13hrs. Currently im considering a Cessna 177RG, Piper Arrow, and the Mooney. I know the Mooney is the fastest of the bunch but will we all fit? Im 6'0" 190#s and my wife is shorter and of normal size 120#s or so (luckily she will never look on this site). Also my MAX budget is 60K. what do you think? -Hawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Welcome aboard, Hawk. Sounds like the family is made for a Mooney! Several folks here carry as much or more in their planes and fly about the same distance. I'm not sure about the space requirements for the dogs or how they do/will like flying, but it sounds like a C, E or even F model would fit the bill and budget. I know everyone (dogs included) would fit in my J, but I think your budget puts that model out of your range. Maybe @Hank, a C driver from LA (that's Lower Alabama) can shed some better light on your questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 I don't think there's enough cabin room for all five of you. If you left the dogs at home, or reduced down to one dog, you'd be fine in the Mooney. You and the wife in the front seats will be comfortable. The baby will be in a car seat that will take half the back seat. That won't leave much room for one large dog, much less two. Of course the dogs could go in the cargo area, but it's limited to 120 lbs and then there's no room for luggage. My wife and I travel around the country in our Mooney with one large dog and it works well. I'm not sure there's enough room for a car seat AND two large dogs in the back seat. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Mom may need to be in the back seat with baby. Does this leave room for two 80lb dogs ? If you leave the dogs a Mooney from the C, E, F line will meet the mission and remain in budget. I have 980 lbs useful load in my J, and have hauled 4 adults from KY to NOLA with minimal luggage 4 trips. That's with about 30-35 gal fuel and 2 hour legs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 What others said. I hate to say it but a forked tail doctor killer (V Tail Bonanza) might suit you better with the large baggage area that you can use for the dogs. 182 is another one to look at. Everything but the huge dogs fits the Mooney quite well. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Board the dogs and a Vintage Mooney will be perfect for those trips! I have a cousin in Charleston who drove to Austin with two children and two Labs to visit the inlaws one year. Ever since then, the dogs have not gone . . . I have a toy poodle, and he flies in his crate on the back seat, just to keep him out of our laps up front. Adding 150 pounds of dog flesh will make it difficult . . . to say nothing of controlling them at rest / fuel stops. Wife has baby, you have a leash in each hand, who's gonna work the gas pump? My useful load is 970 lb. Pilot = 200; pax = 130; fuel = 300; that leave 340 [in your case, 360] for baby, baggage and dogs. Even then, I generally run out of cube before I run out of weight. They call it a "short body" for a reason, but it actually does a pretty good job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoma015 Posted March 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 When we travel in the car one dog usually takes up a seat and the other is on the floor board and they usually stay that way for our 3 hr drive home. Boarding the dogs may be the best thing...My trips home would normally only be a 4-5 days but there will be times when im back in LA for 2 weeks or so, wouldn't want to see that bill for boarding 2 dogs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) How do you handle the loading of everyone in the car? (Details given above) we have one member around here that likes to travel with his dogs... look up Samarai Husky (spelling not right) If everyone gets their own seat, you run out of seats quickly. Putting dogs in crates would require super human strength to load. Not restraining the dogs would be disastrous from a weight and balance point of view. Having a dog interfering with the child wouldn't go over very well with the mom. This is more GA limitations than Mooney limitations. Go long body. One dog in the cargo area. One on a back seat. Child in the back. There is no room in the floor board for 90 pounds of dog. Everyone tied down to prevent moving... especially in turbulence... PP thoughts only, Best regards, -a- Edited March 2, 2017 by carusoam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 13 minutes ago, thoma015 said: When we travel in the car one dog usually takes up a seat and the other is on the floor board and they usually stay that way for our 3 hr drive home. Boarding the dogs may be the best thing...My trips home would normally only be a 4-5 days but there will be times when im back in LA for 2 weeks or so, wouldn't want to see that bill for boarding 2 dogs! Got some neighbors who can stop by and feed them every day? Great for (other's) kids to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 The Mooney is a great time-machine for a couple, or a couple +1. We travel with our large dog as does @cnoe. But then we don't bring kids. You've got a baby, large dog A, and large dog B. You gotta pick one. :-) I'm not sure how that load fits in an Arrow or a Cardinal. I'm thinking a Cherokee 6 or a Bonanza A36 would be more appropriate for the mission. But they probably don't fit the budget. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnoe Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Leave the baby at home and the rest of you will fit fine. JK of course. Leaving the dogs behind may/may not work for you but as mentioned above you're pushing the limits without a 6 pax plane. Maybe a LB would work but that's triple your budget. Even with only one pup (95#er) there's not enough room on the seat for a car seat (or anything else). Sorry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 $60K would buy a lot of tickets on SWA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 3 hours ago, thoma015 said: Hello everyone, I have been searching for a airplane that will fit a new profile im about to have. Currently I own a share of a 172 but I only use it to fly locally or 2 hrs hops. I am moving to Oklahoma City and both my wife's family and mine live in south Alabama...roughly a ~600NM trip. We have a 7 month old baby and 2 70-80 dogs. Im looking for something faster than the 172 that will take all of us without having to drive 13hrs. Currently im considering a Cessna 177RG, Piper Arrow, and the Mooney. I know the Mooney is the fastest of the bunch but will we all fit? Im 6'0" 190#s and my wife is shorter and of normal size 120#s or so (luckily she will never look on this site). Also my MAX budget is 60K. what do you think? -Hawk Plenty of useful load to spare. I could do that trip with 750lbs in the cabin with no wind and land with an hour of fuel. However, I think the dogs are a non starter. You need to either leave them at home or you need to by a 6 place airplane and remove the rear seats. I can't think of an airplane with a 4 place cabin that would work. You might be able to stack the crates sideways in a Comanche baggage compartment, but 150lbs of dogs plus baggage may put it out of CG. Your wife is going to want to be able to climb in the back (ask me how I know) with the baby so plane on her occupying 2 seats. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964-M20E Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 If you take the dogs with you sounds like you need a Cherokee 6 or a Saratoga. The Saratoga is a retractable Cherokee 6 for the most part and some other change as well. These are flying Chevy suburbans perfect for what you want to do and bring the dogs along. Cost wise you might be able to get on in your budget but it would probably be stretched very tightly. How old are the dogs? Minus the dogs C through current new production would do fine. Next thing is what avionics you want to have at your disposal for the flight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoma015 Posted March 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 31 minutes ago, Mooneymite said: $60K would buy a lot of tickets on SWA. Its all about the freedom! Id rather spend the money and fly on my schedule than a 12 hr travel day in car or by commercial plane. There are no direct flights from OKC to Mobile so with security, layovers, then taking a cab from airport to parents house it will take just as long to drive...and I still couldn't bring the dogs! 7 minutes ago, 1964-M20E said: If you take the dogs with you sounds like you need a Cherokee 6 or a Saratoga. The Saratoga is a retractable Cherokee 6 for the most part and some other change as well. These are flying Chevy suburbans perfect for what you want to do and bring the dogs along. Cost wise you might be able to get on in your budget but it would probably be stretched very tightly. How old are the dogs? Minus the dogs C through current new production would do fine. Next thing is what avionics you want to have at your disposal for the flight. There is a club in OKC that has fixed gear Saratoga...they say 9 days is the max to keep it however. they also have a C182. My dogs are a 9 year old Black lab and 2 year old Yellow lab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) Have the dogs been flying yet? if one gets loose, and decides to go to the back of the plane it will be hard to overcome an out of balance situation. ya know? Some dogs tend to move away from the engine noise... Best regards, -a- Edited March 2, 2017 by carusoam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Yeah, I'm with ya. Flying the airlines defeats the whole purpose. It'd be an easy one for me... leave the dogs behind. I can't imagine the club would let you take the dogs in that Saratoga, you'll never get all the dog hair out of the plane. There's a reason @cnoe and I have the dogs we do. Neither of us have kids, and both our Labradoodles are non-shedding breeds. Therefore they are good air-travel companions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonal Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 If I had the crew you describe I would be thinking SUV not one door coupe. Don't kill me everyone but you should go C182 and I think in your price range you might be in line. For truck like missions you can't beat a Cessna. I also think you will get better use from the 182 over the 177. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoma015 Posted March 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said: Yeah, I'm with ya. Flying the airlines defeats the whole purpose. It'd be an easy one for me... leave the dogs behind. I can't imagine the club would let you take the dogs in that Saratoga, you'll never get all the dog hair out of the plane. There's a reason @cnoe and I have the dogs we do. Neither of us have kids, and both our Labradoodles are non-shedding breeds. Therefore they are good air-travel companions. I agree...I bet the dogs would be a no go in the Saratoga unless I was allowed to remove the rear seats and put a tarp down. I love my dogs but this may be the last time I own labs.....the shedding is terrible!!! Just got my wife a new Honda pilot and after just 2 trips (down a back) I could have make a dog haired blanket. Made me cringe looking at the back seat of the new vehicle cover in hair like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Al Mooney was 6' 1" and built a plane for himself 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 6 hours ago, Mooneymite said: $60K would buy a lot of tickets on SWA. What a depressing way to torch $60K. Souther AL could mean anywhere in the southern part of the state. How much additional driving on the arrival end? rental car? yuk! Similar to the few trips I've taken to St Simons GA: It's a 715mile drive - Total time ~11.5 hours if you go straight through and there are no storms or traffic issues. Commercially it's a 1.2hr drive to KBWI + 10 mins to park + 20 mins for parking shuttle + 1hr of security and check in (minimum) + 2hrs and 20mins on a SWA flight to KJAX + 35mins for deplaning and baggage collection if checked (70lb dogs definitely get checked) + 15mins rental car counter (may require a shuttle or train or both a la KSFO) + 1hr and 25 mins to the beach house. Total time - 7hrs 17 mins Via Mooney its 543NM so ~3hrs and 45mins with the Rental car or Uber I requested 3 miles out pulling on to the ramp to meet me at my plane + 10 mins to load and tie down + 10 minute drive to the beach house. Total time 4hrs and 5 mins This exercise makes me painfully aware that attempting to do the type of travel we do without a Mooney would be an exercise in frustration. We also like to head up North to Camden ME in th summer. Doing that commercially would leave us a 2hr rental car drive after arriving in Portland. I could do the same exercise with several other regular destinations and the math almost always works in favor of "Mooney Air" until the trip hits 1000NM. I flew my wife to KPDK for a 1hr business meeting. 3.6 down and 3.4 back. It would have been a 12 to 14 hr day if not a long day and a wake up plus travel via the airlines. Little airplanes can look almost practical if you value your time and sanity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 6 hours ago, thoma015 said: I agree...I bet the dogs would be a no go in the Saratoga unless I was allowed to remove the rear seats and put a tarp down. I love my dogs but this may be the last time I own labs.....the shedding is terrible!!! Just got my wife a new Honda pilot and after just 2 trips (down a back) I could have make a dog haired blanket. Made me cringe looking at the back seat of the new vehicle cover in hair like that. Two 70-80lb dogs should be in crates when in flight. Sorry, but its a safety precaution...plus they make my copilot nervous! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glafaille Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 A Cherokee 6-260 might be just what you need. Same as a Cherokee 6-300 but a bit older, a bit cheaper, a little less power but still plenty for your mission. Not much slower than a C model Mooney, but has 6 seats. Burns a bit more fuel than a Mooney, but cheaper insurance and maintenance. 84 gallons of fuel, 12 to 14 gallons per hour, 135 knots true from what I can tell. http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/17636695/1966-piper-cherokee-6-260 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 70-80lb dogs should be is crates when in flight. Sorry, but its a safety precaution... Please provide NTSB reports where dogs were a factor in an accident. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 TJ, There are plenty of reports related to weight moving in flight out side the envelope. Tie-downs for heavy things have their purpose. Check the WnB of a pair of dogs that jump into baggage area because they can. My small dog went from the front seat to the baggage area and stayed there... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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