aidanf Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 I am currently looking at a 1966 Mooney E( I am in Europe) - doing my research on what is/is not possible on these vintage I would like to understand more about design changes over these years : The lasar oil cooler mod is only for 1967 and up - why not the earlier E&F models? :The io-390 STC is only applicable for sn 69001 and up (1969 and later models) what are the differences that preclude the earlier models? And - I actually have a J cowl with baffling in my garage - There are 2 swiss Model E flying around with the J cowl but getting copies of the paperwork is elusive - does anybody have a copy of a337 or could point me in the right direction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbridges Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 I'm not sure what the differences are, but I did learn they exist. I'm sabremech's cowl thread, he mentioned it was for late 60's models and he would try to develop one for earlier models later. I have an stc for a '65 C model with the 201 cowl. The stc isn't very descriptive in itself; it references other sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 hour ago, aidanf said: I am currently looking at a 1966 Mooney E( I am in Europe) - doing my research on what is/is not possible on these vintage I would like to understand more about design changes over these years : The lasar oil cooler mod is only for 1967 and up - why not the earlier E&F models? :The io-390 STC is only applicable for sn 69001 and up (1969 and later models) what are the differences that preclude the earlier models? And - I actually have a J cowl with baffling in my garage - There are 2 swiss Model E flying around with the J cowl but getting copies of the paperwork is elusive - does anybody have a copy of a337 or could point me in the right direction Are you sure? My '66 E has the LASAR oil cooler relocation mod. And there was a '64C on the field here a few days ago with a 201 cowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964-M20E Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Earlier Mooneys had an inner cowling called the dog house. I believe this is the reason the oil cooler relocation is not available on the earlier models. As for the IO390 conversion I'm not sure why there are limitations you are only talking 10HP and very little to no additional weight but a very high price tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidanf Posted March 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 2 hours ago, rbridges said: I'm not sure what the differences are, but I did learn they exist. I'm sabremech's cowl thread, he mentioned it was for late 60's models and he would try to develop one for earlier models later. I have an stc for a '65 C model with the 201 cowl. The stc isn't very descriptive in itself; it references other sources. If you have a snap or copy of the reference for the STC it would be great - SWTA are defunct and not likely to start offering cowl mods again, mooney mart cost a fortune and are only in Florida so if I wanted to get one done in Europe any other paperwork would be a great help. Sabremech's cowl solution is fantastic but the only way to get it on a european plane would be an STC - 337's are really difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidanf Posted March 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 5 hours ago, aidanf said: I am currently looking at a 1966 Mooney E( I am in Europe) - doing my research on what is/is not possible on these vintage I would like to understand more about design changes over these years : The lasar oil cooler mod is only for 1967 and up - why not the earlier E&F models? :The io-390 STC is only applicable for sn 69001 and up (1969 and later models) what are the differences that preclude the earlier models? And - I actually have a J cowl with baffling in my garage - There are 2 swiss Model E flying around with the J cowl but getting copies of the paperwork is elusive - does anybody have a copy of a337 or could point me in the right direction Let me clarify a little - what are the structural differences in the 64-69 E and F models compared to the models after that allowed the green arc to go from 150mph to 175mph - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 4 hours ago, 1964-M20E said: Earlier Mooneys had an inner cowling called the dog house. I believe this is the reason the oil cooler relocation is not available on the earlier models. My 1970 C has a [recently resuscitated] doghouse, and I think they were used right to the end of the C model in 77/78. At some point, E & F got away from them, but not sure when. [I haven't been paying attention in class . . . ]. There is a mod to get away from the doghouse, but I'm waiting on sabremech's new front end, which will also get rid of the carburetor chin and make my C look like an E while improving engine cooling and airspeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964-M20E Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Hank said: My 1970 C has a [recently resuscitated] doghouse, and I think they were used right to the end of the C model in 77/78. At some point, E & F got away from them, but not sure when. [I haven't been paying attention in class . . . ]. There is a mod to get away from the doghouse, but I'm waiting on sabremech's new front end, which will also get rid of the carburetor chin and make my C look like an E while improving engine cooling and airspeed. Sounds to me like you have E envy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Just now, 1964-M20E said: Sounds to me like you have E envy Nah, I want better cooling and more speed. Right now, my C is truing out in the high-140-knot range. I've seen 148 and 149 KTAS on my 430W after inputting alt, temp, pressure, etc. The chin bump is just more drag . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted March 2, 2017 Report Share Posted March 2, 2017 Just now, Hank said: Nah, I want better cooling and more speed. Right now, my C is truing out in the high-140-knot range. I've seen 148 and 149 KTAS on my 430W after inputting alt, temp, pressure, etc. The chin bump is just more drag . . . We're developing an application for all prospective E owners. Given your prior experience with Mooney's training model it is possible you could qualify. The application fee is rather modest considering it has to be split with the present members of our rather exclusive club and I'm sure you'll find it more than fair for the benefits received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabremech Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 10 hours ago, aidanf said: If you have a snap or copy of the reference for the STC it would be great - SWTA are defunct and not likely to start offering cowl mods again, mooney mart cost a fortune and are only in Florida so if I wanted to get one done in Europe any other paperwork would be a great help. Sabremech's cowl solution is fantastic but the only way to get it on a european plane would be an STC - 337's are really difficult. Unfortunately, EASA STC is out of the question for me. Too much money to get it approved and then you pay a renewal fee for the STC every year. The reciprocity agreement between EASA and the FAA is really a joke. We give everything away in the US and have to pay EASA for our STC's to be approved there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 8 hours ago, aidanf said: Let me clarify a little - what are the structural differences in the 64-69 E and F models compared to the models after that allowed the green arc to go from 150mph to 175mph - I believe that 66 was the last year for the "dog house" (plenum over the engine). After 66 they went to baffle seals against the cowling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20F Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 67 was last year for flushed rivets, manual gear, and hydraulic flaps. The flushed riveting came back later but last year for gear/flaps which were desirable for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Shadrach said: I believe that 66 was the last year for the "dog house" (plenum over the engine). After 66 they went to baffle seals against the cowling. Maybe for Fs. But my 1970 C has a doghouse that I spent two annuals resurrecting . . . Edited March 3, 2017 by Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 15 minutes ago, Hank said: Maybe for Fs. But my 1970 C has a doghouse that I spent two annuals resurrecting . . . Interesting. I don't think any Fs had a doghouse (only three made prior to 67). Do all of the C models have the doghouse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 50 minutes ago, M20F said: 67 was last year for flushed rivets, manual gear, and hydraulic flaps. The flushed riveting came back later but last year for gear/flaps which were desirable for me. Hear, Hear!... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, Shadrach said: Interesting. I don't think any Fs had a doghouse (only three made prior to 67). Do all of the C models have the doghouse? All of the ones I've looked at, less one or two with J-type cowls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20F-1968 Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 I have installed a J model cowling on a 1968 F model, along with J model style baffling, except for the oil cooler relocation which is on the baffling and not the firewall which is a better, less complicated installation. All was done using a DER and DAR with prior approved data. You can PM me here with your e-mail or you can e-mail me at john.breda@gmail.com or call me at (617) 877-0025. I have done what you are attempting to accomplish. John Breda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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