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How Well does a Mooney Handle Rough Air?


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10 minutes ago, Guitarmaster said:

Watch the horizontal stab on the 737 shake during takeoff and you will think twice about flying on one!  LOL!

True, but the horizontal stab on the 737 isn't continually in my field of view for hours during a long cross country flight. Neither is the horizontal stab on my Mooney.

:ph34r:

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  • 4 weeks later...

I offer a belated thanks for all the excellent replies in this thread.

Today I got an excellent opportunity to answer this question in my mind.  I needed to take my Taildragger Cessna to a different airport where I managed to get a hangar for her.  I waited until well after lunch waiting for the ceiling to go up to a reasonable level.  Once I got off for this 42nm flight, it was in the afternoon rough air.  The Cessna rolled around and the wing even dipped probably 40 degrees or more and refused to come up for a second.  I was at a high alert level during the whole flight.

Once there a friend of mine had offered to bring me back in his 172.  He gave me a little stick time in it and it felt very much like the 140 only heavier feeling.  Once he got me back to my home field and we visited for a little bit, he was going to go to another field about 30NM away to see a few of his fellow crop dusters.  I decided to fly over there in the Mooney, not worrying too much about the rough air since I had plenty of it during my transition training.  Once I got in the air there was a definite difference.  I don't think a passenger would have noticed the difference, but the plane was much less stressful to fly, I think, due to the precise handling.

A few of you explained this in the thread, but once I felt it for myself I was very happy.  I feel more confident in bumpy air in the Mooney than I do in either of the Cessnas I flew today.

Thanks again for all the responses.

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10 minutes ago, MBDiagMan said:

I offer a belated thanks for all the excellent replies in this thread.

Today I got an excellent opportunity to answer this question in my mind.  I needed to take my Taildragger Cessna to a different airport where I managed to get a hangar for her.  I waited until well after lunch waiting for the ceiling to go up to a reasonable level.  Once I got off for this 42nm flight, it was in the afternoon rough air.  The Cessna rolled around and the wing even dipped probably 40 degrees or more and refused to come up for a second.  I was at a high alert level during the whole flight.

Once there a friend of mine had offered to bring me back in his 172.  He gave me a little stick time in it and it felt very much like the 140 only heavier feeling.  Once he got me back to my home field and we visited for a little bit, he was going to go to another field about 30NM away to see a few of his fellow crop dusters.  I decided to fly over there in the Mooney, not worrying too much about the rough air since I had plenty of it during my transition training.  Once I got in the air there was a definite difference.  I don't think a passenger would have noticed the difference, but the plane was much less stressful to fly, I think, due to the precise handling.

A few of you explained this in the thread, but once I felt it for myself I was very happy.  I feel more confident in bumpy air in the Mooney than I do in either of the Cessnas I flew today.

Thanks again for all the responses.

The recent 210 break up caused me to do a little research of the NTSB database. There were 4 pages of of Cessna in-flight breakups going back to 1983.   I stopped looking at details after 15 years. There have been 12 high wing Cessnas that suffered in-flight breakups during that time frame.  The C210 has the dubious distinction of being represented in more than half of those occurrences.  The same search for all Mooney's yielded 1 page with a total of 3 accidents all occurring in the 90s.  Anecdotal at best, but I prefer to be in the 3 accident airframe just the same. Riding a folded airframe to the ground is a haunting thought.

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So how do you guys fly moderate chop?  I've been scolded for not riding the controls, especially the rudder, and let the airplane simply ride thru the minor oscillations of pitch, roll & yaw.  To me there is more induced drag and air frame stress to attempt to counter the aircraft's every minor attitude change. Or maybe I just like the "..rocky wavey motions of the sea.."  I spent lots of my youth off shore in the gulf.  Actually, veeerrryy smooooth aaiir is what can freak me out!?

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Today's landing Wind 320 19K gusting 29K     Lots of flying really close to the runway.  Did not make the 2000 ft turn off. It really was a nice touchdown once everything settled down.  Was very much planning for a go around.

The take off down south was pretty exciting.  Wind 330 17 gusting to 23  Runway 31.   Airspeed came up really quick, did not have alot of crosswind correction in and someone left half flaps down.  Started skipping sideways  across the runway.   The other Mooney requested 36

Pretty bouncy on the upwind way back, was climbing out at 83 knots, first time I have wacked my head on the roof.

This morning the TAF said the winds would be wipping this afternoon. So some little stomach butterflies, but the Mooney handled it like a champ.

 

Edited by Yetti
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I rode some rough air again today as well as pulled off a Tailwheel landing in gusty and variable wind.  This was another experience of changing between my C model and my Cessna 140 on the same day, experiencing the contrast.

I needed to swap locations since my planes are at two different airports.  I experienced more confidence in the Mooney in rough air as compared to the Cessna.  I also landed the cessna taildragger on a 35 runway with a 300, 9 gusting to 20 and variable 280 to 40.  I don't know how that combination can exist, but that is what AWOS was announcing. I was really proud of my tailwheel landing in those conditions.

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On 3/27/2017 at 9:22 PM, Shadrach said:

The recent 210 break up caused me to do a little research of the NTSB database. There were 4 pages of of Cessna in-flight breakups going back to 1983.   I stopped looking at details after 15 years. There have been 12 high wing Cessnas that suffered in-flight breakups during that time frame.  The C210 has the dubious distinction of being represented in more than half of those occurrences.  The same search for all Mooney's yielded 1 page with a total of 3 accidents all occurring in the 90s.  Anecdotal at best, but I prefer to be in the 3 accident airframe just the same. Riding a folded airframe to the ground is a haunting thought.

Scott Crossfield. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2007/september/27/ntsb-releases-final-report-on-crossfield-crash believe it was a 210 and suffered an in-flight breakup..

10.jpg.64e42c3305b0040ef79a4f0492fb7c4e.jpg

 

 

 

...seem to recall that it rained down in pieces out of the sky. I was at air venture right after it happened and Chuck Yeager pretty much ripped him and implied Scott was not a good pilot.  Was interesting....

Related safety briefing:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2008/april/01/safety-pilot-landmark-accidents-always-another-dawn 

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6 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Scott Crossfield. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2007/september/27/ntsb-releases-final-report-on-crossfield-crash believe it was a 210 and also seem to recall that it rained down in pieces out of the sky. I was at air venture right after it happened and Chuck Yeager pretty much ripped him and implied Scott was not a good pilot.  Was interesting....

Yeager is not afraid that share his opinions. He had some choice words about the F16 that departed the runway at Oshkosh a few years back. I don't know how Crossfield ended up in a thunderstorm in this day in age, but it does happen. My take is if you end up in a storm you've not been very conservative with your margins.

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Just now, Shadrach said:

Yeager is not afraid that share his opinions. He had some choice words about the F16 that departed the runway at Oshkosh a few years back. I don't know how Crossfield ended up in a thunderstorm in this day in age, but it does happen. My take is if you end up in a storm you've not been very conservative with your margins.

Read the link I just edited it breaks it down pretty granularly. 

 

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8 hours ago, Stephen said:

Scott Crossfield. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2007/september/27/ntsb-releases-final-report-on-crossfield-crash believe it was a 210 and suffered an in-flight breakup..

10.jpg.64e42c3305b0040ef79a4f0492fb7c4e.jpg

 

 

 

...seem to recall that it rained down in pieces out of the sky. I was at air venture right after it happened and Chuck Yeager pretty much ripped him and implied Scott was not a good pilot.  Was interesting....

Related safety briefing:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2008/april/01/safety-pilot-landmark-accidents-always-another-dawn 

Scott Crossfield was not IFR current or legal and should not have embarked on that flight. He would not have died such a tragic death that day and destroyed a perfectly good airplane. 

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17 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

Most of my flying for at least the first 20 mo s of each flight is down low.  I find the Mooney far better at handling chop than other aircraft.  While p and c brand waddle through the Mooney just jolts through a bit like a twin baron does.  If I could do anything to improve my J it would be add a yaw damper.  Apart from that it is the best chopcand IFR platform I have found. 

I live in the UK where we get hit almost hourly with damp moist air straight off the Atlantic. I.e. LOTS of bumps. :)

I don't have that many aircraft in my logbook, but none of the ones that are in there handle rough air anything like the Mooney.  The only exception might be my hour in a Bell 47.  I have flown: Aeronca Champ, Cessna 140, 150, 172 & 180, Piper Archer, Bell 47 & M20C.

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Hang out at the airport on a busy windy day and watch the light and highwing planes bounce around...

The Mooney shows a significant difference. Wing loading and dihedral (V-wing angle)

Not perfect, just better than the rest.

Best regards,

-a-

Edited by carusoam
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1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Hang out at the airport on a busy windy day and watch the light and highwing planes bounce around...

The Mooney shows a significant difference. Wing loading and dihedral (V-wing angle)

Not perfect, just better than the rest.

This is a great video of the 2014 Mooney Caravan arrival into Oshkosh. We landed 13 elements spaced about 30 seconds between elements. By the time the final 3 or 4 elements were landing, it was raining and quite gusty. Look at about 20 or 22 minutes into the video to see some good shots of Mooney's landing side by side on the runway and handling the gusty crosswinds just fine. 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Sorry to keep dragging up this thread, but my rough air confidence in the Mooney just continues to improve.

Had a little bit of a challenge for a trip I took today.  There were some various and constantly changing cloud layers which made things a little interesting, but the afternoon rough air was an interesting experience. The years I have spent in the Taildragger have made me into someone that dreads rough air to a point of avoiding it unless there is a real need to fly in it.

Today, I went to Mount Pleasant and got in the air about 1:00 to give Sandy her first Mooney flight.  The air was rough enough that it made her slightly queasy.  This was surprising because she is a tough, action packed kind of girl.  She has done lots of skiing and other adrenaline activities over the years, so there isn't much that bothers her.

After giving her a flight in the rough air, I headed back to put Joyce away.  It was pretty darn rough, pitching me all over the place, but it really didn't bother me.  I feel vastly more confident with the Mooney in rough air, than even my very best day ever in the taildragger.

I believe that the wing and the positive control linkage is what makes the Mooney different.  Whatever it is, it is making aviation more useful for me.

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On 2/26/2017 at 1:13 AM, Seanhoya said:

In terms of afternoon Texas chop, just don't try to overcontrol the plane, and all will be good (accept some deviations that you might not on a beautiful day). And tighten down on your seatbelt, lest you wack your head!  

Ah yes, the afternoon return flight from KEDC->KBPT via the I-10 VFR Corridor through downtown Houston at 2000'.Bumpy.thumb.jpg.27ce2c3a59676042faee080658aa25da.jpg

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The more you fly her, the more you will like her! I've only had to slow down for turbulence once, west of Crazy Woman VOR, and it had been forecast. I was a new Mooney pilot, too, one year past my insurance dual and approaching 200 hours total time. 

My wife used to fuss when I hit the same pothole coming back ftom breakfast, but she only hit her head / headset on the ceiling once. That taught her about keeping the seatbelt tight. 

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