Demise of N6XM?

[prflyer]

I was surprised to find that N6XM was up for salvage sale as it suffered an accident.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20C&listing_id=2250965&s-type=aircraft

I had always admired this airplane when Paul owned it, and I thought it was an extremely nice example of a vintage Mooney.  I don't quite understand why the photos show it as it has been completely taken apart, but the description simply says that the gear suddenly failed during taxi.  How could that type of incident require that an airplane be deemed only worth salvage value?  I understand a new prop and an engine teardown, but why salvage and take the airplane completely apart? What am I missing here?

Paul, do you have any other info on this?

Thanks,

Fernando

 

[Zwaustin]

That is unfortunate, I rode in that nice looking bird once... bar not locked? More to story?

[Marauder]

I was surprised to find that N6XM was up for salvage sale as it suffered an accident.
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20C&listing_id=2250965&s-type=aircraft
I had always admired this airplane when Paul owned it, and I thought it was an extremely nice example of a vintage Mooney.  I don't quite understand why the photos show it as it has been completely taken apart, but the description simply says that the gear suddenly failed during taxi.  How could that type of incident require that an airplane be deemed only worth salvage value?  I understand a new prop and an engine teardown, but why salvage and take the airplane completely apart? What am I missing here?
Paul, do you have any other info on this?
Thanks,
Fernando
 

Usually this means it was insured for less than the repair value. When that happens, the insurer will total the plane and pay the insured the value of the insured value. Something to pay attention to if you have a good amount of money invested in a plane.


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[neilpilot]

N6XM was recovered by Dawson Aircraft, and then trucked to their facility in Clinton, AR.  N1310W was similarly dismembered when Dawson recovered 10W the day after I put it down in a soybean field in Marked Tree AR in 2012.  

So far as I can determine, that's how Dawson handles a Mooney so that they can transport it to their site.  They remove the rivets from the rear of the cabin structure, so that the cabin/wing can be placed on the flatbed separate from the rear fuselage/empennage.  I can't be sure, but I think this is their standard field procedure for Mooney recovery.  In my case this was done before the insurance adjuster totaled the aircraft . 

[KSMooniac]

It can be put back together after this method of disassembly. Now it just needs a buyer ready for some sweat equity to fly again. Otherwise a salvage yard will buy it, sell the avionics and some airframe parts and scrap the rest.

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[orionflt]

12 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

It can be put back together after this method of disassembly. Now it just needs a buyer ready for some sweat equity to fly again. Otherwise a salvage yard will buy it, sell the avionics and some airframe parts and scrap the rest.

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I think that's one of the reasons Dawsons does that, increases the amount of work required to restore the aircraft making it more likely to become salvage. if its already in their yard they stand the best chance of getting it.

 

Brian

[neilpilot]

6 minutes ago, orionflt said:

I think that's one of the reasons Dawsons does that, increases the amount of work required to restore the aircraft making it more likely to become salvage. if its already in their yard they stand the best chance of getting it.

 

Brian

That maybe, but how would you recover a Mooney, assuming it needs to be moved on the road?  Would wing removal cost even more in time to disassemble & re-assemble?  When they recovered mine, the wings were not even de-fueled.

[orionflt]

12 minutes ago, neilpilot said:

That maybe, but how would you recover a Mooney, assuming it needs to be moved on the road?  Would wing removal cost even more in time to disassemble & re-assemble?  When they recovered mine, the wings were not even de-fueled.

I do not disagree with disassembling an off field incident for transport, but  N6XM  incident was on airport property.

Brian

[prflyer]

Just now, orionflt said:

I do not disagree with disassembling an off field incident for transport, but  N6XM  incident was on airport property.

Brian

One of the pictures shows N6XM on a flatbed inside of the hangar still in one piece. I still don't understand how the insured value could be so low that this would be sold for salvage.  What does an engine teardown and new prop, with labor to put back together, run these days?  If it was truly a taxi incident this should not have done that much damage.

Where is Alan when we need him?

[prflyer]

I just found another thread where this airplane was also discussed. I had not seen that one before.

 

[neilpilot]

6 minutes ago, orionflt said:

I do not disagree with disassembling an off field incident for transport, but  N6XM  incident was on airport property.

Brian

Yes.  But Dawson didn't decide to transport N6XM.  Presumably it was a mutual decision by the owner and the insurance adjuster, or just the insurer after it was totaled.  Your posting "one of the reasons Dawsons does that, increases the amount of work required to restore the aircraft making it more likely to become salvage" strongly implies that Dawson should have done it differently.  That's what I was questioning. 

[orionflt]

Dawson is a salvage company, they are going to do what they can to most efficiently salvage and transport an aircraft for parts sales (that's how they make their money). my point was more they are just that, a salvage company not a recovery company so if they are hired to recover an aircraft they are going to totally disassemble it where some one who is looking at restoring it to flying condition might not. if the aircraft is totally pulled apart it it becomes more cost effective to part it out. that benefits them.

Brian

[ArtVandelay]

One of the pictures shows N6XM on a flatbed inside of the hangar still in one piece. I still don't understand how the insured value could be so low that this would be sold for salvage.  What does an engine teardown and new prop, with labor to put back together, run these days?  If it was truly a taxi incident this should not have done that much damage.
Where is Alan when we need him?

I would imagine prop, engine work, wing work would run $40,000. We all know how previous damage hurts resale price. I doubt you could sell it for what you spent on it.

[Jerry 5TJ]

Suppose N6XM had been carefully lifted back onto its gear & towed to a hangar.  You are offered the plane as-is, where-is. What would you pay assuming you'd repair and sell it?  

With new prop and engine Field overhaul It would perhaps sell for $40K?  

I estimate to make it a worthwhile (cash positive) restoration project I would need to pay close to zero.  But it has a salvage value of $15K, at least.  

So it goes for scrap.  

Sad!

 

 

[Conrad]

Nooo I loved this plane. I'm so sad.

[Drumstick]

N6XM had missing logbooks prior to all the mods which probably really hurt it overall value.  This is a GREAT opportunity for someone that has their A&P and wants to build a personal project to hang on to for a long time.  The cost of the repairs will never restore the aircraft to a clean value regardless of the number of great and unique mods.  To a bank or buyer getting a loan it will always be simply be an early C model with damage history and missing logbooks with a nice GPS and autopilot.  

Edited to add that I really liked this airplane and was sad that it sold before I could seriously consider it back last summer.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Drumstick

[tigers2007]

Oh crap I just realized the bidding ended 25hrs ago. I would have put in a decent bid for that. I could use the panel, radios, and some wing parts. Any guesses on what it'll actually go for? 12 AMU's?

[jasona900]

So I'll chime in.  I was the owner of 6XM when the incident occurred.  I posted what happened in this forum (search for landing gear collapsed during taxi).  

This was a very difficult decision for me.  I pondered the way forward for about two months until I decided to give it to the insurance company.   

The Mooney was insured for what I paid for it.  $50,000.  The insurance company (Starr insurance who was awesome during this whole process) offered me $38,000 as a payout if I wanted to keep the airplane.  This would have come very close to covering a replacement prop and rebuild on the engine plus labor.  It would not cover replacement of the structures that were damaged during the collapse, but I openly admit that the cost to fix the gear, belly panel, etc would have been relatively cheaper.

So why didn't I go that route?  6XM really was the perfect Mooney for me.  It was in fantastic shape, had all the avionics I wanted, and a pure joy to fly.  

The answer to why I didn't repair it is not an easy one.  Sure there would have been the hassle of fixing it.  But would it have been worth it in the long run to have an airplane with a fresh prop, engine, and gear?  Probably.  I spoke to many mechanics, friends, and family.. all with difffernt opinions on the way forward.  And after a lot of anger, and some sadness, I decided to let it go.  That was the decision I ultimately made.  I can't put into words why, and I do question my decision, especially after I have seen the Mooneys on the market today in my price range.

I will get another Mooney.  It will take some time to find the right one for the right price, just as 6XM did.  

 

 

[Raptor05121]

Can you explain the whole insurance procedure? What is made to determine the value to repair it instead of a check for 50k?

[jasona900]

Just now, Raptor05121 said:

Can you explain the whole insurance procedure? What is made to determine the value to repair it instead of a check for 50k?

How they came up with the exact offer I'm not sure..  I assume they came up with their offer by taking into consideration the damage caused, and time on the engine.  And the offer they provided me was about what I expected it to be.

Working with the insurance co was very straightforward.  They paid for the cost to remove the airplane from the runway, and covered the hangar cost while I figured out what I wanted to do.  I had a zero deductible policy, and the removal, hangar rent, and salvage were all coverd at no expense to me.  In the end, I received a check in the mail for $50k, the exact amount it was insured for.

I had such good service with them, that when my other airplane was due to renew its insurance, I called them (through AOPA) but was told that even though the incident with the Mooney wasn't my fault, they would still increase future premiums for about 3 years. 

 

[prflyer]

Jason,

I'm really sorry this happened to you.  Having that happen to an airplane you are so invested in must be incredibly hard. Thank you for coming forward and sharing your story. I had not seen the other thread where you discussed the incident.

Best of luck with your next Mooney.

Fernando

[jasona900]

57 minutes ago, prflyer said:

Jason,

I'm really sorry this happened to you.  Having that happen to an airplane you are so invested in must be incredibly hard. Thank you for coming forward and sharing your story. I had not seen the other thread where you discussed the incident.

Best of luck with your next Mooney.

Fernando

Thank you Fernando.  

[tigers2007]

I had a total hull loss a few years ago and the experience is much easier than the vicious car insurance nightmare. What I do know is that my old bird was purchased for peanuts and was back in the air within two months lol (C150).


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[mooniac15u]

3 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

Can you explain the whole insurance procedure? What is made to determine the value to repair it instead of a check for 50k?

I went through the process with Chartis/AIG. They wanted a repair estimate but the most they would pay was 80% of hull value for a repair. Above that and it's cheaper for them to total it because of what they can get from the salvage auction. For a $50k plane the max repair cost was $40k. 

[jasona900]

1 hour ago, Hyett6420 said:

I would liken your post to turning off life support on a loved one or putting down your favourite animal.  Such a difficult and sad decision to make. I hope you find another one soon to fall in love with. 

It's interesting how quickly we become attached to our airplanes.  I mean, in reality, they are just machines.  Maybe it's because of they joy they bring, the trust we have in them, and the effort we put forth to make them the best they can be that causes us to become emotionally attached.  I know I have had that attachment to every airplane I have owned.