Low oil pressure....again

[powder_hounder]

11 hours ago, Mooney_Mike said:

The Penn Yan Aero overhaul process is the result of over 70 years of experience overhauling thousands of Lycoming and thousands of Continental engines installed in all kinds of airframes flying in all kinds of environments around the world.

The Penn Yan Aero proprietary overhaul process is FAA Approved and incorporates dozens of unique techniques that result in a smoother-running, longer-lasting engine that helps make flying safer and lowers operational costs. Fleet Operators and FBOs repeatedly specify Penn Yan Aero overhauls because they provide reliable economy.

Penn Yan Aero Overhauled IO-360-A1A Includes

 

• Friendly, Highly Experienced and Knowledgable Staff Devoted to Helping You Find the Best Answers to Your Engine Needs
• Round-Trip Shipping, Including Logistics, Within the Contiguous United States
• Penn Yan Aero’s Highly Developed, FAA Approved, Proprietary Overhaul Process that Results in Reliable, Smooth-Running, Long-Lasting Performance
• Overhauled to Lycoming’s New Engine Fits and Tolerances, as a Minimum
• Weight-Matched Set of New Lycoming Pistons, Rings, Wrist Pins
• Cylinder Options as available
• All Parts, New and Overhauled, are Critically Inspected and Evaluated; Benchmarked to Lycoming’s New Engine Fits and Tolerances to Ensure Penn Yan Aero’s Stringent Quality Standards
• Crankshaft and Rotating Assembly Dynamically Spin-Balanced to within 0.20 Ounce/Inch Grams of Lycoming’s New Engine Specifications
• New Camshaft and Lifters
• New Bearings and Bushings
• New Oil Hoses, Seals, Bushings, and Gaskets
• New Slick Ignition Harness
• New Champion Spark Plugs
• New SkyTec Lite Weight Starter
• Certified Bendix Magnetos
• New Champion Oil Filter
• Certified Fuel Injection System
• New or Certified Fuel Pump
• New Miscellaneous Nuts, Washers, Bushings, and Springs, as Needed and Required
• Current and Compliant with all FAA Airworthiness Directives and Manufacturer’s Service Bulletins and Letters
• Set-Up and Tested Via Penn Yan Aero’s Rigorous 100 Minute Proof-Positive Test-Run and Post-Run Inspection
• Penn Yan Aero’s Warranty: 100% Parts and Labor for 3-Years or to Lycoming's Maximum Recommended Time Between Overhaul (TBO), Whichever Occurs First, Supported Worldwide and Transferable from One Owner to the Next
• Effective Diagnostic Service and Competent Technical Support

 

Penn Yan Aero Overhauled IO-360-A1A
with Penn Yan Aero Overhauled Steel Cylinders
$25,011 / $224 per month

Penn Yan Aero Overhauled IO-360-A1A
with Penn Yan Aero Overhauled Nickel Cylinders
$26,894 / $241 per month

Penn Yan Aero Overhauled IO-360-A1A
with New Factory Cylinders
$28,918 / $259 per month

 

(No sales tax)

Thanks for this!

[powder_hounder]

2 hours ago, MooneyBob said:

I can't believe that oil analysis were normal? What lab did you use? Could you post a copy of the report by any chance?

Thanks. 

Wow.  That's a lot of metal.

[Guest]

I can believe that it was not spotted on an oil sample, it's not the first time I've seen it.  What's equally surprising is that it wasn't found sooner during oil filter inspection.

Clarence

[tigers2007]

Has anyone here ever sent in their filter for inspection? They probably would have lost their minds with this one. $80 I think. I am considering doing this at my next oil change. My motor had a field overhaul to new limits in '95 and is still running on the same Superior Millennium cylinders with 2110hrs (O-360-A1D).


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[Andy95W]

Your A&P (or you if you do your own oil changes) should be able to cut open the filter without too much difficulty.

This is more important than oil analysis, IMO.

[MooneyBob]

7 hours ago, Andy95W said:

Your A&P (or you if you do your own oil changes) should be able to cut open the filter without too much difficulty.

This is more important than oil analysis, IMO.

I agree. We see over and over that sometime the oil analysis didn't show any signs of elevated metals and filter was contaminated. 

In my case I had elevated metals in the oil last three on changes. I also cut open filter every time and I could see increasing number of metal flakes. I sent filter for analysis too and they reported iron and steel alloy used in the lifters. That prompted me to pull the cylinder and I found that those lifter ar really going bad. 

 

 

[powder_hounder]

So I spoke with the shop where my plane is currently located at KARR. Their shop rate is $99/HR so I asked them to change the oil with straight 50W oil and have it ready for me to fly out tomorrow. I think I'm going to take it to Poplar Grove Airmotive 20 mins to the north.  They are a good overhaul shop, and their shop rate is $70/hr. I'm going to have them pull two cylinders and we'll see where we go from there.  I'll post the photos when I get them. 

 

Thanks everyone for you input, very helpful!

 

Brian Locascio

N9550M @ C56

 

[jetdriven]

That penn yann quote looks like same money as factory engine, without the roller cam. 

[ArtVandelay]

That penn yann quote looks like same money as factory engine, without the roller cam. 

Does a factory overhaul come with new cylinders?

[jetdriven]

I see, it is a factory engine.

[powder_hounder]

I dropped her off at Poplar Grove Airmotive on Sunday. Topped with eight quarts of straight 50 weight oil, oil pressure during the 15 min flight was right smack in the middle of the green arc and looked great, almost as if there was nothing wrong. The only clue that there was something wrong was the prop losing RPM and then surging and then leveling out. For example, while I was flying at 2450 RPM, the engine would drop down to 2420 RPM and then surge to 2480 and then level out again at 2450. This happened both directions on my last flight to and from Minnesota, and again on this short flight.  This is the first time I've ever had this problem in 16 years of ownership. I do not know if it's the prop governor or if it's the engine losing RPM, I tried watching the manifold pressure gauge all the while, but it's so far over in the right side of the panel and the movement could be so small to cause such little RPM movement that I would need a digital manifold pressure gauge in order to see if it moves. And even then I suppose the manifold pressure would change slightly, especially for rapid changes to the pitch of the propeller in the event it was a governor problem.

 

The shop called back Mon morning to let me know it was .25 qt low which is consistent with what I've experienced the last few hrs of flight time - 1 qt per hour consumption. I authorized them to start pulling cylinders.  They called back stating they pulled #3 which is the one I reported as dropping 100F while in flight at same alt and power settings and I couldn't explain why.  They said the cylinder is indeed pitted and from what they could see from the lifter it too is pitted.  They're going to pull more cylinders to confirm lower half, but it's looking like a complete overhaul is imminent.  They're going to send me photos to backup their claim.

 

I started talking overhaul costs with another person from the company who handles the overhauls.  He gave me the numbers for an overhaul to new service limits with new cylinders which is all they do.  It sounds about as good as 80 grit toilet paper, but I'll have a new engine.  I asked about the cost for a NEW Lycoming engine and he told me they're not a Lycoming distributor but he'd get me pricing.  In the meanwhile I called a Lycoming distributor and they gave me ballpark pricing.  They also asked if I'd be interested in the IO-390 which is a 210HP motor and STC'd by Lycoming for the E, F, and J model.  This interests me so I asked him for pricing.

 

Has anyone installed installed the 390 in their Mooney?  I would be curious to know if you like it and if the add'l 10HP is worth it (assuming it's more than the 360).  Would also be curious to hear how it performs and if anyone might have put a power flow on it for a few more HP.

 

Brian

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by powder_hounder

[powder_hounder]

I just spoke with the Lycoming distributor about the IO-390 option.  Apparently it's only offered as STC'd replacement for the IO-360 for serial numbers 69000 and up, which means 1969 and later which also means my 1967 F doesn't qualify - bummer.

[Andy95W]

9 minutes ago, powder_hounder said:

I just spoke with the Lycoming distributor about the IO-390 option.  Apparently it's only offered as STC'd replacement for the IO-360 for serial numbers 69000 and up, which means 1969 and later which also means my 1967 F doesn't qualify - bummer.

I really wouldn't be bummed if I were you, you may have dodged a bullet.  The reviews I've heard about the conversion was that it really wasn't worth it.  I think there was an article in the MAPA Log that said for less money you could get a brand new engine with roller tappets and a Powerflow exhaust and have the same performance as the IO-390, and pay a lot less for parts down the road as well.

[Marauder]

I just spoke with the Lycoming distributor about the IO-390 option.  Apparently it's only offered as STC'd replacement for the IO-360 for serial numbers 69000 and up, which means 1969 and later which also means my 1967 F doesn't qualify - bummer.

I think (if I recall this correctly) the cylinders are the high ticket item on the IO-390. Like Andy said, I would opt for a new IO-360.


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[Bob_Belville]

38 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

I really wouldn't be bummed if I were you, you may have dodged a bullet.  The reviews I've heard about the conversion was that it really wasn't worth it.  I think there was an article in the MAPA Log that said for less money you could get a brand new engine with roller tappets and a Powerflow exhaust and have the same performance as the IO-390, and pay a lot less for parts down the road as well.

A MS friend of mine has his J at Longview right now getting a "new" engine. He discussed the IO390 with DMax who talked him out of it, I don't think it took a lot of talking.

[cnoe]

On 2/23/2017 at 10:34 PM, Mooney_Mike said:

This came out of my oil filter, YIKES! (Yes, all 3 of them)

I'm sorry to see that this post was deleted. Others might benefit from seeing exactly what the fuss is all about. I, myself, am curious how much metal you were seeing without having it show up on the oil analysis. No joy though.

[tigers2007]

Why was it deleted? Here is the photo:


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[Yetti]

That's more than a teaspoon full

[Skates97]

On 2/24/2017 at 9:23 PM, Andy95W said:

Your A&P (or you if you do your own oil changes) should be able to cut open the filter without too much difficulty.

This is more important than oil analysis, IMO.

Newbie question, what do you use to cut open the filter? I'm approaching my first oil change since purchasing the plane.

[cnoe]

10 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

Newbie question, what do you use to cut open the filter? I'm approaching my first oil change since purchasing the plane.

I use one of these with good results.

Also available at Aircraft Spruce.

[cnoe]

1 hour ago, tigers2007 said:

Why was it deleted? Here is the photo:


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Thanks for reposting. I'm surprised if there wasn't an increase in iron on the oil report at some point.

[powder_hounder]

Got a call from Poplar Grove late last week stating they think the lower part of the engine will make it to TBO and they're going to machine the cylinders and pistons.  Was quite happy to hear this.. 

[ArtVandelay]

Got a call from Poplar Grove late last week stating they think the lower part of the engine will make it to TBO and they're going to machine the cylinders and pistons.  Was quite happy to hear this.. 

Are they saying it's only going to last another 550 hrs? Or it will last another 2000 hrs? If you fly a lot that's going to come pretty soon.