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eman1200

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19 hours ago, xcrmckenna said:

So if the asking price was $57,000 why didn't you pay that? It sounds like it was worth it if non of the problems effect the way it flew, but maybe you were looking for a deal or a discount. What about planes that do have problems that effected the way it flys then shouldn't the buyer get an even more discount on price? but the sellers more often than not don't have realistic views of their planes and wouldn't drop the sale price enough to make it reasonable to purchase. I'm not scared of a project, or of a plane that isn't a 10 in all aspects. But why should I be dumb throwing away good money on a bad plane. If you want to take the time and sit down with me and have a beer I will gladly take you through the last 2.5 years of planes I've looked at and all the money I have spent on prebuys, and trips across the states. Prebuys at Don Maxwell. But I wouldnt trade it for buying a terrible plane that was a money pit. Your comment in the rule of thumb thread was flawed as well. You said if you can't afford the most expensive plane in that model you shouldn't buy it. Well I've been looking for a J model and the useful load I want fits in the 77'-82'. And no matter what anyone says a 77' will never have the resale value of a 97'' but doesn't mean there are not solid wonderful 77' 201's out there. And touchy subject I'm sure but did buying the most expensive 252 save you from having major issues? Spending the most money doesn't make the plane a good value. If someone wants to keep their requirements for their mission then so be it, I know I have.

 

The asking price was $57K, I initially offered $54K pending a Maxwell pre-buy. After the pre-buy, and consultation with Don, my final offer was $48K which was a better reflection of the value. I was looking at two different C's at the time and while 6XM was my preferred choice, I was prepared to go to the second one. The offer of $48K was accepted and I bought the plane. I'm not suggestion you shouldn't negotiate. Everything is negotiable. And in this case Don actually told me I "should buy this plane". In spite of the issues.

But one should also realize that airplane ownership is fraught with uncertainty and one must be prepared to spend and to loose money. The situation with my 252 is a perfect example. It was not the most expensive 252 on the market at the time, but it was the best equipped, and in the best condition of any that were available. The corrosion issue could not have been discovered by anything short of a full tank strip. That is never going to happen during a pre-buy. So it's just bad luck. But if I wasn't fortunate enough to be able to handle the cost of such an issue, I wouldn't own such an airplane.  My experience owning the C was excellent and very affordable. I effectively logged 400 hours at somewhere less then $50/hr.  The experience with the 252 has been enjoyable, but obviously much more expensive. And I'll have to fly her for a long time to get the costs down to something reasonable. But it's all part of ownership, and I wouldn't change a thing.

And finally, the beers on me, I'd love to hear the full saga... :-)

 

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1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

And I'll have to fly her for a long time to get the costs down to something reasonable. But it's all part of ownership, and I wouldn't change a thing.

And finally, the beers on me, I'd love to hear the full saga... :-)

 

I hope that works out for you but it sounds like something a first time aircraft owner would say ;)

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I like the suggestion to create a spreadsheet with must haves and nice to haves. I'll be in the market a year from now. If I am religious about tracking between now and then I should be able to act quickly based on what's available when I have $$ in hand. Thanks for the suggestion.


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@eman1200, what are your thoughts on this plane and the associated PPI report?  Does it meet your standards or would the items on the inspection report cause you to walk away?  I realize this one is likely over your budget but for the sake of discussion assume it's within your budget.

 

 

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1 hour ago, mooniac15u said:

@eman1200, what are your thoughts on this plane and the associated PPI report?  Does it meet your standards or would the items on the inspection report cause you to walk away?  I realize this one is likely over your budget but for the sake of discussion assume it's within your budget.

 

 

I took a QUICK look at the PPI.  these are the things that stood out to me:

both tanks leaking

excessive nose wheel play/shimmy

tail loose at the trim points

$6k to fix that full list is nothing in the grand scheme of the price of that plane.  with the advise of an A&P, if he thought all of the items on the list could be fixed for $6, or even under $10k, I would probably go for it, it's a great looking plane.  again, I took a quick look, I don't know any other history around it.  likewise, given the tank leaks, I'd be even more focused on corrosion. 

but not really sure what you mean by 'meet my standards' in this case.  this plane has much more than I 'need'.  I've heard "be prepared to shell out about 10% of the purchase price in the first year of ownership to fix stuff".  if that's true, than this plane comes in under budget, so to speak.

as far as the PPI, I didn't specifically see anything that would lead me to run away from this plane. not sure if I answered your question or not.

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21 hours ago, eman1200 said:

I took a QUICK look at the PPI.  these are the things that stood out to me:

both tanks leaking

excessive nose wheel play/shimmy

tail loose at the trim points

$6k to fix that full list is nothing in the grand scheme of the price of that plane.  with the advise of an A&P, if he thought all of the items on the list could be fixed for $6, or even under $10k, I would probably go for it, it's a great looking plane.  again, I took a quick look, I don't know any other history around it.  likewise, given the tank leaks, I'd be even more focused on corrosion. 

but not really sure what you mean by 'meet my standards' in this case.  this plane has much more than I 'need'.  I've heard "be prepared to shell out about 10% of the purchase price in the first year of ownership to fix stuff".  if that's true, than this plane comes in under budget, so to speak.

as far as the PPI, I didn't specifically see anything that would lead me to run away from this plane. not sure if I answered your question or not.

I was just curious about how you go about analyzing a plane for possible purchase.  There are no perfect planes out there and everyone has their own criteria for what they will accept.  It seemed like you might have very tight standards since I assume you've evaluated a lot of planes over the past couple of years.

Personally, after owning my first Mooney for 8 years I recognize that maintenance/repairs are a constant factor in airplane ownership.  Repairable issues upfront were a non-issue on my second Mooney purchase as long as the sale price plus the cost of repairs was fair for the market.

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