Hey, Injected E Owners?

[Z00mie]

Gents/Ladies,

I was digging through my manual after doodling with a new flight planning app. I have always used 16.5 GPH for fuel consumption flight planning in climb. Now, for the life of me I can't remember from whence that number came ? I have the POH that reflects cruise numbers, but nothing else? I only have the single CHT and a fuel pressure gage in my A/C and I am planning on doing some longer/extended endurance flying where planning will be more crucial. Can any experienced E types provide details or direction?

Edited February 20, 2017 by Z00mie

[1964-M20E]

16.5 GPH is about what you should be seeing an takeoff.  As you climb higher especially above 3000 you will begin to lean the mixture.  I will start leaning between 3000 and 4000 just a little at first.  Climbing to 10000 generally with my fuel flow meter will show about 6 to 7 gallons used once I level out.  I start flight planning at 10GPH average shorter flights 2hr and less usually right on the money.  Longer flights leaned out I average around 9GPH.  Since you do not have and engine monitor and fuel flow yet get get one.  There have been many discussions regarding them use the search feature.  I like the Insight G2 because that is what I have any manufacturer is good just pick your poison.

The engine monitor will allow you to lean your engine while in flight very consistently.

[carusoam]

Often the full throttle, full rich climb FF is about 1.5X cruise FF

There should be info on this in the POH. They give fuel usage for start-up and taxi, take-off and climb, cruise and descent, landing and taxi again....

Many people use their own FF gauges to determine Best how fuel is getting used.

If you don't have a FF gauge, join the people that use two tanks and a calibrated stick.

Use the search function to learn about the calibrated stick and how best to make one for yourself....

How's that?

Best regards,

-a-

[MHemperly]

What 1964-M20E said

longest leg I've flow is 500NM and I flight plan at 10gph, but when I compute the time and fuel added it comes out to about 9.5gph average on long legs

 

Mike

Edited February 20, 2017 by MHemperly

[carusoam]

Keep in mind the POH for your bird continued to develop until 1976 or so.  You may want to get a second POH. One for legality and one for more useful numbers....

What year is your E?

Best regards,

-a-

[Z00mie]

Great info, Thank you! A 1966 E...  

[carusoam]

In the mid 60's the document was a leaflet called an Owners Manual.  POHs were a creation by the FAA that came a few years later.

The T/O and landing distance charts were also updated.  To include density altitude, surface type, and incline?

One oddity, was the weight and balance.  Actual factory data was kept with your planes' logs.  My 65C had a piece of loose graph paper that was stuck in the original AF log.  Looked like one of the previous owners handy work.  Only the signature was done by factory personnel.

fun history of airplane's....

Best regards,

-a-

[Shadrach]

Take off and climb FF is driven by MP and air density.  16.5gph seems low for near sea level takeoff, especially this time of year.

[Herlihy Brother]

for the love of all that is holy, FOLLOW THE POH and run a tank dry, you will get 600 nm range. Been doing this for 20 years in a 1963 totally under tanked 52 gallon  e model. If you get headwinds, like you do going west bound, take a detour.  for some reason pilots refuse to run a tank dry--they refuse to follow the poh.

[Herlihy Brother]

of course, in the interest of safety, I have learned to "tanker fuel"

[Herlihy Brother]

my friends and I agree, if 70 gallons of fuel, the e  would be so much better...jeez, you can barely get anywhere with 52 measly gallons of fuel.....what was al thinkng....and thank you jose.

[nels]

7 hours ago, 1964-M20E said:

16.5 GPH is about what you should be seeing an takeoff.  As you climb higher especially above 3000 you will begin to lean the mixture.  I will start leaning between 3000 and 4000 just a little at first.  Climbing to 10000 generally with my fuel flow meter will show about 6 to 7 gallons used once I level out.  I start flight planning at 10GPH average shorter flights 2hr and less usually right on the money.  Longer flights leaned out I average around 9GPH.  

While using 6 to 7 gallons climbing out to 10000 ft have you ever figured your usage during your decent back to agl? Should be really low and how many miles covered during the event?

 

Edited February 20, 2017 by nels

[Z00mie]

3 cheers for GAMA Carusom ! While instructing I accumulated quite a few different POH's, AFM's and "Owners Handbook of Operation" copies etc, Some detailed, some not so much. I have also contacted Mr Crawford at Mooney to get an official read on what supplements to the Owners Manual are available for performance etc. However,  I now look to supplement predictive math with.experience when I or others make it available. And that, Is why I ask!

[Bob_Belville]

I have a '66E (IO360-A1A) I would expect to see about 18-18.5 gph BttW takeoff unless it's high DA.

Climb at 200F ROP, perhaps 1300F EGT or a little less. That should pretty quickly in the climb be 13-15 gph which I would use as flight plan "climb burn".

For maximum range, I pull back to about 8.3 gph LOP which is 62% power (8.3x15/200). I flew nonstop about 600 nm on 39.4 gallons 4.7  hrs KMRN-KMSN going to KOSH and 38.8 gallons 4.8 hours KMRN-KMHT for a PPP last year.

My Mooney has fuel bladders and holds 54 gallons, nominal. I've thought about adding the extra 10 gallons available but 4.5 hours is already past the range of my personal bladder.   

[Lrn2Fly]

+1 on Bob's post.  Takeoff FF should be 18.5 gph at sea level.  If you climb at 25"/2500 rpm, typical FF is 13.5 gph when properly leaned for 200' rich of peak.  If you do not lean, your FF will be more like 14.5-15.5 gph in the climb.  

In cruise, at 24"/ 2400 rpm and 100' rich of peak, you will be using 10.5-11 gph.  At 24"/ 2400 you should be running 100' rich unless you have an engine monitor.

Once you are above 6000' MSL, your engine is no longer able to generate 65% power, so you may lean more aggressively until the engine gets rough, then richen until it is smooth again.  At this point, you'll be using about 8.5 gph in your sweet spot altitude range between 6000 and 9000'. 

With an engine monitor, things change a bit, especially down low, but for your flight planning, these numbers will serve you well.

[1964-M20E]

4 hours ago, nels said:

While using 6 to 7 gallons climbing out to 10000 ft have you ever figured your usage during your decent back to agl? Should be really low and how many miles covered during the event?

 

Never bothered figuring out what I burned during decent.  Heck, I'm there at that point and as long as I still have my minimum reserves when I land.  When I begin my decent I nose over and trim for about 500fpm decent (about 170IAS) and I'll throttle back to check MP at 24" and adjust mixture as necessary.  On a visual approach 2 to 3 miles out I'll reduce MP to about 14" and let the plane slow down to enter the pattern reducing to about 10"

[Bob_Belville]

For descent in reasonably smooth air and absent ATC restrictions I push the nose over to near red line and get paid back for the investment I made getting up to cruise altitude. I reduce throttle as necessary to maintain an acceptable rate of descent and I only tweak the mixture knob when engine gets so lean it runs rough or when I get to pattern altitude. At ~155 kias CHTs will look great.

[Z00mie]

Nice meeting you Thursday Bob B! Thanks All for the data/input!

[Guitarmaster]

On 2/19/2017 at 7:53 PM, Shadrach said:

Take off and climb FF is driven by MP and air density.  16.5gph seems low for near sea level takeoff, especially this time of year.

Agreed.  I usually see around 18GPH on takeoff.  I lean for about 14 in climb which equals about 150 ROP.  9 in cruise which is about 20 LOP

[ArtVandelay]

Agreed.  I usually see around 18GPH on takeoff.  I lean for about 14 in climb which equals about 150 ROP.  9 in cruise which is about 20 LOP

I'm more anal about leaning and lean every 1000' based on what I call rule of 18: altitude in thousands + fuel flow=18. So if at 4000', I set FF to 14, this works well up to 10000', keeps me at a constant 150° ROP. Saves me a little fuel on the climb, especially if going high.