Tighty Whitey Patterns Poll

[201er]

Do you fly tight patterns? For the sake of the poll I defined them as within gliding distance of the airport at normal pattern altitude. For discussion, feel free to explain what your definition of tight pattern might be. Do you ever fly tight turns in the pattern? If you don't, how far are you willing to go to avoid them? Will you go around, turn away from pattern, go away to another airport? Those who avoid tight turns in pattern, what do you do when winds demand tight turns in any phase? And lastly how big of a pattern do you fly and is there anything that causes this to vary?

[gsxrpilot]

In my opinion, these Mooney's are very simple airplanes to fly and land, so I'm not concerned about making every pattern/landing the same. Depending on wind, conditions, other planes in the pattern, direction of approach to the pattern, etc,  I'll vary my pattern/landing.  The gear, flaps and speed brakes, give me lots of options regarding speed, altitude, distance, turns, etc.

Sometimes when up flying with a friend/pilot, ask him to call the base turn or decent, etc. and then make it work. It mixes things up and keeps the skills sharp. 

[ArtVandelay]

If I find I'm overflying final I just keep turning and intercept from the opposite side, no big deal. If on a right pattern I probably fly a wider pattern so I can see the runway, it's by feel. I don't make steep turns (>30°), makes it harder to avoid birds, and hitting a bird at low altitude while going slow in a steep turn would ruin my day.

[bradp]

I have been on a power off 180 kick lately (I think I'm going to go for my commercial and CFI). Pull power to idle from anywhere crosswind or later and land on the numbers. Remember not to gear up.

 

I avoid more than 30 degree banks. If I go more than 30 I make sure my wing is unloaded. We've already discussed that ad nauseam.

 

I generally stay within gliding distance of the field at all times. I keep my runway just under my wing if flying a left pattern.

 

 

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[rbridges]

I try to keep fairly close.  I don't want to be that guy that slows everyone else.  If I'm too fast/too high, I'll compensate with a longer turn to base.  I try not to make steep turns.  My initial CFI scared me about stalls.  Learning circle to land procedures with my CFII, I realized how much you can bank if you know to keep the nose down.

[Hank]

Downwind with the runway just inside the wingtip. Best glide is 2.3 nm per 1000' agl, so it's pretty safe almost all the way around.

I never bank > 30° in the pattern, and generally only bank around standard rate. When I overshoot final due to wind on base leg, I just hold the bank and fly back to final; if that won't get me back and aligned by short final, I go around and make it correct. Going around doesn't faze me, I've done it with family, friends and other pax on board, and with friends watching on the ground. Safety trumps everything!

[thinwing]

I pass

[Bob - S50]

Once again, being the oddball, I don't fit into your poll options.

No, I do not plan to always be within gliding distance.  Once the gear and flaps are down, I would probably not make it.  To say that I always remain within gliding distance implies that I fly at idle all the way from downwind to landing.  If I don't it either means I will be fast on final or will not make it if the engine fails.

Am I always tight enough on downwind that I can make it if the engine fails before I put the gear down? Yes.

Question 2 I can answer.  No steep turns.  If I overshoot, so be it.  If it's minor fly back to final.  If it's gross, go around and fly a wider downwind.

[Bartman]

The odds of the engine quitting in the pattern is small in comparison to a stall-spin in the pattern. 

If we are lucky, someone here with more knowledge than me may even post the rate of occurrence of each. 

[201er]

1 hour ago, Bartman said:

The odds of the engine quitting in the pattern is small in comparison to a stall-spin in the pattern. 

If we are lucky, someone here with more knowledge than me may even post the rate of occurrence of each. 

Unfortunately I don't think we will ever find out. I'm sure that most tight pattern engine failures that resulted in a safe landing on the runway will go unreported. On the other hand for some of the stall crashes, we may never realize that the power loss led the pilot to stall/crash. I do agree with the hypothesis that stalls are responsible for more near airport accidents than power failures. But there is no reason that pilots can't learn to fly preventively for BOTH!

I once spoke to a guy who is so afraid to spin his cherokee in the pattern that he says he doesn't use the rudder so that he couldn't skid. Just because you can misuse the rudder and skid is not a reason to misuse the rudder entirely. Set the rudder on the ball not to skid, set the AOA indicator on the ball not to stall. It's not as hard as it looks and practice makes it second nature.

[Shadrach]

I don't think a pattern that is within glide distance of the runway is necessarily tight.  I typically turn base about a quarter mile from the threshold.  I can and do practice much tighter patterns to stay comfortable and proficient.  I see no issue with banking greater than 30° in the pattern, some mountainous airports demand it.   Speed planning, control and awareness is far more important than pattern size.