When do YOU start your descent from downwind?

[jlunseth]

Its interesting to see that others do things differently, I assume since they are here (on this forum) they are all good safe pilots.  I have reasons for a couple of the things I do.  First, I want the gear down before the airport, distractions being the issue, cause I have actually been there myself.  No, I have not done a gear up.  But I was at a small rural airport one day working on my commercial and trying to get the timing right on Power Off 180's.  On downwind preparing to do one I saw two things going on on the ground that worried me.  One was a fellow Mooney driver in an F who was apparently trying to figure out which runway I was going to use so he could stay out of my way, and he was not talking on the radio.  He first went one way on the taxiway and then back the other, and then reversed course again.  There was also a guy at the approach end of my runway who had finished assembling an ultralight and was about to take off from the grass.  He had no radio at all and no idea I was there.  So watching all this, executing the 180 which takes concentration, I found at about 50 feet that my speed was higher than it should have been.  The gear was not down!  So I did a go around and resolved not to ever let distraction do that to me again.  If I drop the gear before the airport then whatever craziness I find in and around the airport is not go to create a gear down, and I will have several opportunities to checklist the gear before landing.

I have run into pattern craziness many times.  The pattern is not a good place to be without the gear down already.

On when to start descending, the issue for me is two fold.  First, speed control in any Mooney is crucial.  Losing alot of altitude right at the runway without gaining speed and then floating, is not an easy thing.  Further, my 231 is necessarily set to run very rich, so during the descent and into short final I am very lean to keep the engine from burbling.  But that is not a good set up for a go around.  At some point it works best to be in marginal slow flight, behind the curve so that power is needed to keep a stable descent.  Powering up the MP in turn lets me enrich the mixture for a go around.  So I like to lose the altitude early, starting abeam the numbers, so the plane has to work a little to keep the glide slope.  I can remember only one real life in anger go around in the last over a thousand landings, a twin at a busy airport that did not get off quickly enough to let me land, but one always needs to be set up for the possibility.  

That'w why I do what I do.

[midlifeflyer]

5 hours ago, jlunseth said:

 First, I want the gear down before the airport, distractions being the issue, cause I have actually been there myself.  

That's a technique issue. As mentioned, mine is quite similar. But the most important thing to me on gear procedure is consistency. Whatever the procedure one uses, it should be an SOP done so consistently that it becomes a habit. My three "habit" stories I think illustrate the point (short versions):

1. I mentioned my procedure is to lower the gear when 3 miles from the airport and at pattern altitude. During a checkout, my CFI started laughing. I looked at him wondering and he pointed to my hand. We were at pattern altitude early, about 4-5 miles from the airport. Unconsciously, my hand had moved to the gear handle and was shaking in anticipation.
2. I had an IFR emergency and managed to get to an airport with high ceilings and land. I don't recall putting the gear down, but I did. Best I can figure I put it down where I always did.
3. I came close to a gear-up only once. It was the second flight after the time (the only time) I tried a new procedure. 

[Bob - S50]

I agree with midlifeflyer.  Habit has a lot to do with it.  I had about 3200 hours of solo (or with a student) in the Air Force.  I always put the gear down someplace between mid-field downwind (T37) and abeam the numbers (everything else).  It's a habit for me.

Plus, I'm cheap!  I probably save a bunch (ok, maybe a cup) of gas by staying clean until I'm abeam the numbers as opposed to dragging gear and flaps through the air as I enter the pattern.

AND, by doing that I minimize power required which helps with noise abatement for the locals.  I'm probably using about 35% power or less for the last 5 minutes of flight.

AND, by minimizing power/fuel burn, I'm helping the environment.

Technique only of course, not procedure.

[Skates97]

20 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

I agree with midlifeflyer.  Habit has a lot to do with it.  I had about 3200 hours of solo (or with a student) in the Air Force.  I always put the gear down someplace between mid-field downwind (T37) and abeam the numbers (everything else).  It's a habit for me.

Plus, I'm cheap!  I probably save a bunch (ok, maybe a cup) of gas by staying clean until I'm abeam the numbers as opposed to dragging gear and flaps through the air as I enter the pattern.

AND, by doing that I minimize power required which helps with noise abatement for the locals.  I'm probably using about 35% power or less for the last 5 minutes of flight.

AND, by minimizing power/fuel burn, I'm helping the environment.

Technique only of course, not procedure.

Ah, thinking of the children and saving the planet for the next bunch of pilots... 

As someone brand new to the world of retractable gear I'm still in the process of developing my habits. I just ticked over 20 hours in my Mooney last night doing some night time pattern work. What I have adopted is similar to Bob, somewhere between midfield downwind and abeam the numbers I run through my GUMPS which is when my gear comes down. Abeam the numbers I bring the MP down a couple more inches which starts the descent. I am still finding that I am a little high when turning final, but I would rather be a little high than a little low.

The only thing I am still working out is a good mental reminder/habit of when to drop the gear when not entering a traditional pattern. Some of the towered airports have you just enter base, make a modified straight in, or just straight in. In those cases I have been putting gear down somewhere around 3-5 miles out but I really need to have a set point for habit sake.

[Shadrach]

Gear down abeam the numbers for standard patterns.  That is also where I typically begin my descent, unless some other factor necessitates holding altitude (like if my turn off is 6500ft down an 8000ft runway). I add flaps as desired after the gear is down. For non standard patterns the gear drops at the 2 mile mark which is also when I typically begin my descent.

[midlifeflyer]

4 hours ago, Skates97 said:

Ah, thinking of the children and saving the planet for the next bunch of pilots... 

As someone brand new to the world of retractable gear I'm still in the process of developing my habits. I just ticked over 20 hours in my Mooney last night doing some night time pattern work. What I have adopted is similar to Bob, somewhere between midfield downwind and abeam the numbers I run through my GUMPS which is when my gear comes down. Abeam the numbers I bring the MP down a couple more inches which starts the descent. I am still finding that I am a little high when turning final, but I would rather be a little high than a little low.

The only thing I am still working out is a good mental reminder/habit of when to drop the gear when not entering a traditional pattern. Some of the towered airports have you just enter base, make a modified straight in, or just straight in. In those cases I have been putting gear down somewhere around 3-5 miles out but I really need to have a set point for habit sake.

That's the second part of the reason for my 3 miles/pattern altitude SOP. I flew out of a towered airport for 20 years where a normal 3-legged pattern was an exception. But heres a possibility for yours. When you put down the gear, you are not only at that midfield to abeam point. You are also a certain distance from touchdown  - the distance you cover the remainder of downwind, base and final. Let's call it X miles. Instead of thinking of dropping the gear midfield downwind, how about thinking of it in terms of dropping the gear X miles from touchdown?

That may or may not work for you. We all have different cues we respond to. Just an idea.

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, midlifeflyer said:

That's the second part of the reason for my 3 miles/pattern altitude SOP. I flew out of a towered airport for 20 years where a normal 3-legged pattern was an exception. But heres a possibility for yours. When you put down the gear, you are not only at that midfield to abeam point. You are also a certain distance from touchdown  - the distance you cover the remainder of downwind, base and final. Let's call it X miles. Instead of thinking of dropping the gear midfield downwind, how about thinking of it in terms of dropping the gear X miles from touchdown?

That may or may not work for you. We all have different cues we respond to. Just an idea.

Thanks, I'll have to kick that around a bit and see where it would fit in my landing sequence. I would like to have something to attach the sequence to regardless of the pattern entry point.

[Bob - S50]

12 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

That's the second part of the reason for my 3 miles/pattern altitude SOP. I flew out of a towered airport for 20 years where a normal 3-legged pattern was an exception. But heres a possibility for yours. When you put down the gear, you are not only at that midfield to abeam point. You are also a certain distance from touchdown  - the distance you cover the remainder of downwind, base and final. Let's call it X miles. Instead of thinking of dropping the gear midfield downwind, how about thinking of it in terms of dropping the gear X miles from touchdown?

That may or may not work for you. We all have different cues we respond to. Just an idea.

Or another idea.  Drop your gear when you are 1000 AGL and descending.  That would be on downwind at most airports if you are flying the pattern.  If you are flying a straight in, it would be at about 3 miles.

I find that when I fly instrument approaches, I often have to drop the gear 15 miles from the airport.  Lots of approaches have crossing restrictions that result in a 3 degree descent right from the very first fix.  In my J, if I stay clean and try to do that, my speed will build up to something above gear speed (unless I go to idle) so I will never be able to put the gear down.  I could go to idle, but I don't want to listen to the gear horn for 12 miles and worse yet, get used to it and forget to put the gear down.  Unless there are unusually strong headwinds at altitude, I find I can only lose about 250'/NM when I'm clean, 13" of MP, and 120 KIAS (about 10KIAS below gear speed as a buffer).

Flexibility, the key to air power.  Indecision, the key to flexibility.  Therefore, indecision is the key to air power.