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Reserving old, expired N numbers


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I am confused on how to reserve an old expired registration number. After perusing the FAA's list of expired registrations , I found several that were greater than five years overdue. I'm assuming these aircraft have been either abandoned, wrecked, or the owner is dead or not interested in flying.
 
There are some neat ones I am interested in such as N9VV, N5C, etc. Is anyone familiar on how I can "take" one of those numbers and use them? Has anyone actually done this before? When I search those specific registration numbers in the FAA availability database it says that they are not available.
 
 
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This is a really good question. I reserved one for when I get my plane painted. On the other hand, I've noticed some N numbers get reserved indefinitely, usually by some governmental agency which you can never get even if they never use them. 

Have you tried calling Ok City and asking about the expired numbers though? I'd be quite interested to hear what they have to say about this.

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I been trying to reserve a number for an experimental I am building.   I've talked to OK City.  I believe they hold a N-Number in reserve for 5 years (or maybe it was 2) after the number expired.  --I think this is on whole a sane policy, since you don't want to lose your N-number for being a day late on a registration renewal.  

There is however a problem.   Some Ass is on a mission to make a business out of reserved N-numbers.   The business is "SHORT-N-NUMBERS".  They have reserved over 600 N-numbers for resale.   They have apparently automated the acquisition process, so you as an individual have no chance of obtaining one of their targeted N-numbers by manually following the process.   The FAA reserves the number on a first come basis, down to the micro second.   By the time you search and hit the button, its already been reserved.  --I encourage you all to write the OK City and complain.  

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Chris has it nailed.  Short N Numbers is scarfing up all "desirable " N Numbers and "Selling" them.   They typically get no less than $500 and I've heard in the thousands for a real desirable one.  It's a bunch of bull sh*t!

Tom

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Yep, N6P was just advertised at $75,000 on Beechtalk.  He's gotten a lot of crap (rightfully so in my opinion) for it, but he uses the same system we do (online).  He targets corporations which will shell out big bucks for these "custom" numbers. 

No different than domain name squatting.  I've seen some sell in the high 8 figures.... :blink:

Not going to fault him if he plays the game better than me, even though I hate it....

The FAA releases numbers everyday, so you have to check the website and be the first one to snatch it.  I would bet he's using this website: http://www.tailnum.com/?updateid=20170213&action=Display

Cheers,

Brian

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25 minutes ago, M016576 said:

Why is "N6P" so desirable?  What am I missing?

 

who would pay for a "custom" number anyway?  That's like changing your child's name when they are 15.... unless, of course, you are trying to hide something.

My son is 15.  Maybe I should change his name to...N6P?

I have a new n-number reserved for my April 24 date with the paint shop.  $10 number that is.

 

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3 hours ago, flight2000 said:

Yep, N6P was just advertised at $75,000 on Beechtalk.  He's gotten a lot of crap (rightfully so in my opinion) for it, but he uses the same system we do (online).  He targets corporations which will shell out big bucks for these "custom" numbers. 

No different than domain name squatting.  I've seen some sell in the high 8 figures.... :blink:

Not going to fault him if he plays the game better than me, even though I hate it....

The FAA releases numbers everyday, so you have to check the website and be the first one to snatch it.  I would bet he's using this website: http://www.tailnum.com/?updateid=20170213&action=Display

Cheers,

Brian

I fault him.  The system is intended to be fair, and he has corrupted it.  If numbers are going to be sold this way, I'd prefer the funds go to the FAA.

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Just now, chrisk said:

I fault him.  The system is intended to be fair, and he has corrupted it.  If numbers are going to be sold this way, I'd prefer the funds go to the FAA.

How has he corrupted the system?  You and I have the same access to the FAA website and could do the same thing.  He choose to make a business out of it.  From his website, looks like he's doing pretty well doing his business this way. 

Brian

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49 minutes ago, flight2000 said:

How has he corrupted the system?  You and I have the same access to the FAA website and could do the same thing.  He choose to make a business out of it.  From his website, looks like he's doing pretty well doing his business this way. 

Brian

The problem I have is not with the legality of what he is doing, but with the ethics.   Corruption is defined as " the process by which something, typically a word or expression, is changed from its original use or meaning to one that is regarded as erroneous or debased "  The system was clearly intended to be fair and to benefit individuals.  By gaming the system, it is no longer benefiting individuals in a fair way. That is why I said he corrupted the system.        

I'll work on encouraging the FAA to deny N-Number transfers from any one entity owning more than 10 unassigned numbers.  We will see how well his business does after that.

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Why is "N6P" so desirable?  What am I missing?
 
who would pay for a "custom" number anyway?  That's like changing your child's name when they are 15.... unless, of course, you are trying to hide something.


This is no different that people grabbing up domain names. I worked IT for a mid sized steel corporation and we finally gave in and paid the hoser $5,000 for the domain name.

I personally have an extra N number reserved for a future homebuilt to pay homage to my alma mater (in sequence with their current N number scheme).


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41 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

 


This is no different that people grabbing up domain names. I worked IT for a mid sized steel corporation and we finally gave in and paid the hoser $5,000 for the domain name.

I personally have an extra N number reserved for a future homebuilt to pay homage to my alma mater (in sequence with their current N number scheme).


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I think this IS different from domain name squatting.... if you're advertising with an airplane N-number- very few people (vs the country or world population) will see it.   

A domain name tends to be a way to advertise and search a business in a business exchange.  An airplane is not "that".  Whatever that is.  An N-number is basically a vanity plate if you're buying them... so again- I think I'm missing something.

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15 hours ago, chrisk said:

The problem I have is not with the legality of what he is doing, but with the ethics.   Corruption is defined as " the process by which something, typically a word or expression, is changed from its original use or meaning to one that is regarded as erroneous or debased "  The system was clearly intended to be fair and to benefit individuals.  By gaming the system, it is no longer benefiting individuals in a fair way. That is why I said he corrupted the system.        

I'll work on encouraging the FAA to deny N-Number transfers from any one entity owning more than 10 unassigned numbers.  We will see how well his business does after that.

FCC amateur call signs have a " vanity" program for cool call signs or ones that are easy to say.My own is a coveted 2x2 call K6ZK...6 means I'm a Calif station and the short call of 4 characters means I have the "Extra "class license giving me access to all the amateur frequencies.These special calls come up as guys die off or don't renew..they are held for 5 years after last renewal and than get released.The Difference from FAA vanity numbers is...you pay a little extra,They cannot be sold or transferred (except very rare club or father to son transfers)and you can't reserve more than one.I got my call sign by negoting with a New York station that had my Calif "6" station as is # 1 pick.The computer predicted he would get it and I would end up with my second choice a "3" call that he should have selected due to location.I wrote him and asked him to revise his selection to change his first choice to that "3" call opening up the K6ZK as my first.Basically ,I told the guy..you will get the "6" call and every body in the world will assume you are a California station..Do you really want that?Anyway  ,my point is The FAA has screwed it up..1 don't allow anyone individual to tie up multiple Reg numbers.2Dont allow transfers..he doesn't use it ,it goes back in the pot.3Create a similar "vanity "program and charge for it in order to pay for the administrative costs.4Review current program for fairness and current unused Reg numbers being reserved and not used in a timely manner,release these within 30 days of non use.Write to the administrator and request this system be changed to reduce Scalping.

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Ever try to get a license plate with a low number?

Ever use your relationship with somebody on the inside who had access or knows when things become available?

legal?  

Ethical?  

Fair?

It is clearly a game of chance.  But, if you want to play to win, it is going to take a fair amount of money... personal money vs. corporate money.  Private corp. money vs. public corp. money...

For an odd example, have you seen all of the president's previous aircraft tail numbers?  It would take some serious cash to compete in that arena...

Aircraft manufacturer American Champion has reserved a slew of numbers ending in AC.

JFK, jr. used a combination of a special date and JK as a tail number. He had a Cessna 182 for sale when he bought his final Cherokee.

Some games require a lot of money to compete head-to-head in.  Polo, IndyCar racing, baseball, rocket planes... tail number collecting...

select your games wisely...?

Capitalism works in some pretty funny/mysterious ways...

Special tail numbers come pretty far down the priority list, after engine OH, paint restoration, and WAAS and AOAi panel updates.... serious first world challenges.  Most common when building a plane that is going to need a new number.

In the be happy with what you got camp...

1) you have a tail number on the side of a Mooney! My favorites are a continuous series of simple numbers ending with a Q.  (Many Mid 60s Mooneys in numerical order, as they went down the line)

2) you didn't get a 13 or a 666 in the tail number.

3) your tail number doesn't end with AD.

4) Even the grim reaper would be challenged buying and reselling N666AD without paying to paint a new number on the side...

Good luck finding your birthday and initials available.  

PP thoughts only, I am not a numerologist... :)

Best regards,

-a-

 

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  • 5 months later...

The fact of the matter is, there is a corrupt relationship with "Short N Numbers" in Florida, and someone at the FAA registry. The reason is this. There were 2 "N" numbers that I wanted to try to get, hoping to get 1 of them. They had been de-registered on July 24th, 2012, which made them available on July 25, 2017. However, they did not show up as available on the FAA "N" Number inquiry page on the FAA site, until August 4th 2017. I had just checked the night before, and it is updated every night at midnight. When I checked on August 9, 2017, they had been assigned to none other than "Short "N" Numbers" of Florida. Imagine that! So i called the registration number, because they had charged me for the N numbers reservation on August 4th. They told my that the "Short "N" Number" company had reserved them on July 25th at midnight. How is that possible when the FAA site would not even show them available until August 4th, 2017. Someone on the inside is making a little on the side with the company in Florida. Plain and Simple. Time to Drain the Swamp!

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Make a complaint to the FAA inspector general. I find it odd how there is no standard to when the actual N number is open for grabs except for "anytime after five years from cancellation". Wouldn't it be interesting if the Florida firm is operated by a former FAA employee or spouse of?


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